Few people have been intimately involved in the influencer marketing industry since before it was called influencer marketing. Crystal Duncan is one of them. An early hire at IZEA before it because the behemoth influencer marketing platform, she is now the Senior Vice-President for Influencer Marketing at Edelman, the world’s largest public relations firm.
Crystal joined me on Digging Deeper, my weekly live stream show and podcast for Cornett, before Winfluence launched. This replay of that interview illustrates her perspective on how big agencies and brands manage influencer marketing campaigns, budgets and beyond. It was quite an insightful conversation, so I thought it would be good for the Winfluence audience to hear as well.
Dive in and share it with someone you know who would enjoy hearing and learning from Edelman’s lead influencer marketing expert.
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Winfluence Podcast – Crystal Duncan Transcript
Jason Falls
Hello again friends thanks for listening to Winfluence – The Influence Marketing Podcast. The influence marketing professionals I frequently turn to for advice, perspective and insight, typically are the ones that can bring multiple perspectives to the conversation. If someone has worked in a brand then also at an agency that serves brands in my opinion, their perspective is more holistic, if you will. Crystal Duncan is the Senior Vice President for Influencer Marketing at Edelman, which is the world’s largest public relations firm. She was also however, one of the original group of employees and spent almost a decade at IZEA, one of the preeminent influencer marketing software and managed services companies. So, she sees our little niche from several different angles. A few weeks before we officially launched this podcast, I had Crystal as a guest on Digging Deeper, the weekly live stream show and podcast I host for Cornett. We had a great discussion on the state of the industry, her history within it, how Edelman approaches influence marketing and a lot more. The conversation was so interesting and useful. I thought it would be good to bring it to Winfluence as well. Crystal Duncan has seen influencer marketing through the “Oh, we’ll add that to our strategy and see what happens” days, all the way through to brands spending millions and even billions — with a B — of dollars on the practice. Hear her perspective and learn from her expertise next on Winfluence.
Jason Falls
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Jason Falls
You spent almost a decade at IZEA. And they’re barely a decade old. I looked back you have to have been one of the first like dozen or so employees there weren’t you?
Crystal Duncan
Yes, I was I was a really, really early on employee there, it was probably one of the best experiences I’ve had in my career. You know, as someone that just came out of college, working at a startup is definitely one of those experiences that are not only super fun, but also so educational. You know, I think that when I come in more of a corporate position now, it’s really taught me that you don’t just have one job, you know, you can do everything you can figure it out, you need to learn from yourself. And you know, back in the wild west of 2007 influencer marketing was very different than what it is today. So it’s been really cool also to watch that, you know, evolution and that journey of the industry as a whole.
Jason Falls
Yeah, you’ve been involved in influencer marketing since it was called blogger outreach. And then Ted Murphy and IZEA came along and then there was sponsored posts. I used to irritate him because I called him pay per tweet said he liked it and then YouTube and Instagram became things it’s it’s been this ever evolving landscape. What’s different about influencer marketing in 2020, aside from COVID, that we we know that’s different. One thing but what’s different in 2020 than 1012 years ago, what’s really changed?
Crystal Duncan
I think the biggest thing is the the widespread adaptation, right? influencer marketing is a cornerstone of, you know, digital and social marketing plans. Whereas, you know, 510 years ago, it was a bolt on, it was something that was a nice to have, it was something that, you know, if we have some extra budget, then we’ll definitely invest in that. And now marketers are looking at influencer marketing as not only the influencers and leveraging their channels, but also as content studios, the influencers are creators. These assets are leveraged through things like paid media, brands, or repurposing influencer content. And a lot of times, you know, that’s something that we encourage, because these are these are creators doing amazing work. So why not leverage these assets in different ways? So I would say obviously, the landscape from a nuts and bolts perspective is very different, like you talked about, it’s not, you know, blackhat SEO anymore, it’s not linked value, it’s not things like that it is now very much a strategic marketing tactic. And that ranges from everything from a celebrity or spokesperson integration all the way down into the nano influencers of the world. And the real puzzle that we have to unlock specifically for our clients is you what is that strategy look like? What are the right tactics, it’s not just a one and done thing anymore. There’s so many different ways to approach it. Really, depending on what the business KPI is.
Jason Falls
So you’re at IZEA for nine years, I think. And then you shift to the agency side. I work with Isaiah from the agency side, but I’ve always had this voice inside my head saying I’d love to be on the tool solution side of things. Just so my thought is maybe one day I’ll go the other direction. But why why the switch for you? Why did you go from working at, you know, a startup that you helped grow to, you know, the PR agency side of the world?
Crystal Duncan
Yeah, I think that from my career trajectory, this is like, obviously, my personal story, but I really lucked out in my career. You know, I didn’t come out of college saying I’m going to go do influencer marketing, I have a degree in telecommunications, I thought that I was going to be more the, you know, TV studio type of person and go that direction. And I lucked out going into more this, you know, influencer digital space, which I’m so thankful for. But when I left IZEA, it was purely just for a change in direction. Actually, even when I left, I didn’t have my next plan. I did the thing that I was very privileged and lucky to be able to do, which was take six months off and travel and then go back and figure out what I was going to do next. And then the position at linked position at Edelman was available. And I actually found it through happenstance, through chance through going through LinkedIn and seeing that a former colleague of mine had liked a post about Edelman having a job opening from who would be my future boss at Edelman. I submitted that application, I stopped on LinkedIn, I stuck around email and sent her a note and said, hey, I’ve got this, this this background, what do you think about talking and within two days, I had an interview, and it the stars really aligned for me, but it definitely, um, you know, I’ve been lucky, I haven’t really had like, you know, what are you going to do in five years, kind of thought to myself, I don’t know, I just kind of roll with the punches and continue to grow that way. So the job of Edelman was really great for me as the next step from Isaiah, because like I said, early on, you know, I can, I learned that I see, I can do anything, I can figure anything out, I can adapt, I can do multiple jobs, I don’t just have to do the one job at hand. And I think that that serves a really good purpose long into a larger corporation. So I’ve just been really lucky. And I say that all the time about my career that it’s it’s been fun. You know, not everyone can say that their career is fun, their job is fun, but I enjoy what I do. I enjoy what I do every day I enjoy the people I work with. And the space itself is always changing and keeps us on our toes. That’s for sure.
Jason Falls
So Jeremy (Wright) actually touched on this in a comment that he made, he says, you know, influencer marketing these days gets a little back to the earlier Ambassador stuff in the early 2000s. In some ways, long term relationships versus just treating it as paid media. But I have a little bit of a I guess it’s a frustration and a conflict in different approaches. There’s a couple different approaches to influencer marketing, at least from the software and tool perspective, I think agencies generally approach it, you know, mostly as a mixed bag of tactics. But I want to ask you this question because I’m struggling with it. And I don’t want to put you on the spot about IZEA. So it’s not specifically about IZEA, there’s other companies that do this. But you you have managed services from influential tools, like as yet and there are others. But you work there. So you know that one, I’m at an agency who has worked with managed services, but I’ve also worked with just the databases where you just subscribe and get information and then you go do the heavy lifting, there’s not a managed service element of it. So they supply me with influent. I go out and contact the influencer when you use a managed service. Oftentimes they require you, the agency or the brand that is the customer, the managed service, to not have a relationship with the influencer. I know why that is. But can you explain why that is? And then assuming you can still play the role of a person in favor of that set up, let me play devil’s advocate with you on that policy a little bit. So why do manage services say, okay, we’re going to go out and do this for you, but you don’t get to talk to the influencers.
Crystal Duncan
Yes, and I can put this, I’ve got a couple of different perspectives on this, I think the first, from a managed services offering, I’m being on both sides of the table. The reason that we’re opting into managed services from the agency side is because we need the help, right? Like, we don’t have enough people we don’t, there’s enough, not enough hours in the day to go through and, you know, manage this stuff ourselves. We all know, in the influencer space that it’s not as easy as clicking a button and the program turns on, it’s a it’s something that we have to do continuous follow up continuous, making sure that people are doing what they’re supposed to do following debriefs, you know, whenever a human is involved, there’s room for human error. So we’re leveraging managed services for a time saving exercise. So from the other side of the table, from, you know, the vendor side, you the biggest reason why you kind of have to let go is because in order for them to be effective, be speedy, and be able to do their job at hand, if we’re micromanaging every piece of that, it’s never gonna get done. It’s just not, you know, it’s already hard enough, when you’ve got a, you know, four page brief and you know, the team trying to pick the right people get the right content, and all those fun things. So from us and agency side is, you know, you know, Jason, we’re very type A, and we need to have control, and we need to make sure things are perfect. If we keep doing that to the you know, like the ideas of the world, they’ll never be able to get the job done. So you know, in that, in that respect, I understand that, from the agency side of the table, we do it in two different ways. We do have SAS licenses with a couple of different tools out there IZEA, included. Creator IQ being another one, we use a couple other tools for discovery. So we are able to make that business decision of can we run the program ourselves? Should we run the program ourselves? Or is it a cost effective way? Meaning that if we pay the fee to run this for us, is that more important than our hours that we need to dedicate to something else? So I think from the marketer side of it, or the agency side of it, that’s the conundrum. And the thing to figure out is, what’s more important using it maybe from a SAS or discovery standpoint, and running it yourself. So you have those relationships, that’s important in some aspects, or is something campaign centric, where we just need to get stuff up like next week, and it needs to go quickly, and we seem to go. So it’s really making those decisions. And I see pros and cons to both sides. There’s, again, this is another situation in our industry, there’s no right answer. It’s it’s you have to make that judgment call. And you have to run from there. And then you know, you figure it out as you go along.
Jason Falls
Well, there’s the other in defense of the policy for the managed services team. There’s also the simple fact that if, if the brand has a direct relationship with the influencer, and the managed service team has gone out and negotiated a rate that the influencer doesn’t like, now all of a sudden, the influencer can go behind their back to the brand and say, Hey, they’re not paying me enough. And that can be a cause all kinds of problems. I get that.
Crystal Duncan
It happens.
Jason Falls
It does. It does. It’s happened to me recently. But but here’s here’s my my rift on it, though. I if if I’m the on the brand side, if there’s not an agency in between, and I’m on the brand side, it’s more important for me. And I guess there’s a difference in what I would call a public relations, relationship philosophy versus an advertising philosophy. to frame it in something that the industry generally understands. Jeremy’s actually touched on it in the comments too. If you have a go between who is and you don’t have a direct relationship with the influencer, then it’s kind of an advertisement. It’s a turnkey, I’m gonna give you money and make this person go talk about us. If you have a more direct relationship, you can actually build a mutually beneficial thing over time, where when you’re in a pinch, and you need some help, but you don’t necessarily have a budget thing, like COVID happens, and you need to help communicate to your audience. And you’ve got a roster of people that you have great relationships with. And you’ve paid them a little bit of money over time, and they really like your brand. Now you turn to them in a pinch and say, Hey, we don’t have a budget for this, because this is an emergency, can you help us and now all of a sudden you have value in that relationship that kind of comes to fruition for you. So I’m from a PR background. So when I see a go between and I don’t get to have a relationship, I’m like, that’s not No, I don’t want to work it that way. And so I have been pushing back on our managed services teams that we work with and and been saying look, I get the financial piece and I can put up a wall to the effect Once from say, look, I can’t negotiate money. That’s why we use them. But I have to have a relationship with that influencer. It drives me absolutely crazy that I can’t sometimes. So
Crystal Duncan
yeah, and I hear that we’ve we have we had that conversation with clients before to even on, you know, Edelman running their influencer programs without them having necessarily all the touch points throughout. And we’ve worked on a couple of different ways. And this is especially beneficial if it’s a smaller brand, it makes it a whole heck of a lot easier, you know, because you’ve got less people that are involved in it. But we’ve actually figured out Okay, so Edelman handles the paid influencer ambassadors, and we talked about ambassadors before, if we’re owning that relationship, our client Not only is one for this example, our client is not only a brand manager, she’s also the head of the community management team. So she felt she fosters all of these relationships through the community management side of it, meaning if an influencer posts, they try and be the first one that comments if new product comes out, they’re the ones that ship the product with handwritten notes. If If requests come inbound, you know, someone’s really interested in working with the brand, they will foster that relationship and then hand it off to us for consideration for future, you know, larger ambassador program. So I think that there’s ways to still be in the conversation. It’s just having to be kind of smart and strategic with the resources that you have. Because our ambassadors on that program, know that client, they know her well, and they know who she is. But it doesn’t mean that she’s executing the contracts, or she’s the one talking to them day to day. So I think that there’s definitely other ways to think about that, especially if you’ve got the agility to be able to kind of wear multiple hats on those types of things, which I know is not something everyone can do. But definitely a situation that works really well for that client.
Jason Falls
I’ve actually came across a couple influencers recently, who flat out told me I don’t work with managed services companies that will only work with the brand team and nobody else does that. I mean, is that sustainable for someone who wants to make money out of this this influencer world?
Crystal Duncan
I think it depends on what your partnerships are, you know, there’s some folks that think volume is what makes sense. And you know, I want to work with a bunch of different brands and figure out where my, you know, places in the market and there are some folks that will hold out for larger deals. I think from a strategic side for the influencer, that’s a personal decision to be made. Right? That’s something that has been a conversation in the celebrity world forever. Because Do you take a ton of deals? Or do you wait for the one big sponsorship deal that you want to do with your dream company, and you’re the face of everything? So I think that that’s a personal conversation to be had, I think also depends on how proactive and influencer is. I love getting emails from influencers of just saying, like, you know, here’s my media kit, here’s what’s going on with me, you know, proactive pitches are cool, sometimes I can make them work. Sometimes we can’t. But I think if an influencer is really, you know, gung ho and pushing their business forward and reaching out to the right people and making those LinkedIn connections and figuring out their media kits, sure, totally doable, but it just would depend on how much work you’re putting into the business that way as well.
Jason Falls
So there’s been some, some movement, particularly recently, both in the United States and the United Kingdom in the fashion and beauty space, to unionize influencers are saying they want to unionize. The focus of these two associations is to fight for transparency and equality from brands and, and how they compensate influencers. It’s largely driven by influencers of color, who feel they are being paid less receiving less opportunity from their brands and respective industries. I don’t think you are or I or anyone would disagree with any idea that would, that would, you know, would ensure that people being treated fairly, particularly in if the fairness hinges upon color, race, gender, etc, that that’s not a debate to me. If they’re being misrepresented, I want them to fight for whatever they need to find. And I want us to help them fight for whatever they need to fight for to make that right. What I’m concerned about, however, is this whole concept of unionization. And I have a have a twofold concern first, is unionized. And even a feasible construct for independent contractors who are seldom connected formally. And if it is, in one industry, how does that play out when other verticals catch wind and start looking at how they’re doing it? I just don’t see how it’s possible.
Crystal Duncan
Yeah, I think from the union side of things, obviously, assembling is really challenging, right. And we’ve got people doing different things with different agendas. And and there’s definitely it’s hard to do. I can’t say that it’s easy, but it has been done before look at sag, right, you’ve got you’ve got unions in our industry? Well, it’s not directly tied to what we do. When we work with celebrity talent sag is something we have to worry about, think about consider making sure we’re you know, figuring all that stuff out. So it is doable, and like you said if if it helps with the, you know, compensation issue, then I think that that is that is fair, you know, everyone should be doing what they need to do to make the money they think they deserve. I think that the compensation issue brings up a bigger conversation though, right? Unfortunately, I Our industry does not have a standard rate for what things cost. We are not a CPM based company and influencer shouldn’t push for that, because it would not be a great conversation to be had. And outside of the affiliate space. We’re not really a CPC, a CPA like we’re none of those we might measure against those things to understand. But we’re not necessarily paying influencers based on those metrics. So I think from a budgeting perspective, where it gets really muddy is when you start talking about bigger programs, it’s one thing to say it costs X number of dollars to do one Instagram post and one Instagram story. Okay, cool. But what if we’re doing five of those we’re doing to video assets. And then I want you to do for media interviews, and a day of shooting with other influencers or talent? How do you measure all that stuff? How do you package that in there. And then to add another layer on top of that, my job as the buyer is supposed to, you know, peek behind the curtain is I’m supposed to try and get as much as I can. For as little as I want to spend on the other side of the table from the influencer, the agent, their job is to try and get as much money as possible for as little work as possible. That’s just the way it is. Right? That’s, that’s the industry, that’s negotiation. So I think from a compensation standpoint, you know, being transparent on that front is step one. But step two is negotiation is something that is not going away in this industry, it’s just not we’re going to negotiate, we’re going to have those conversations. And if people feel as though we come in or brand comes in, or anyone comes in with rates that are unfair or wrong, it kind of alludes to what we were talking about before walk away from the deal. Wait for the next one, you know, if that’s not right, either negotiate back or walk away and be prepared to walk away from our side of the table, the conversation we always have with our clients is don’t come and tell me like, you know, I don’t I would prefer you come and tell me, these are my top three preferences, please give me one of these people. And they’re ranked in order. So therefore, I have the ability to negotiate and walk away if I have to do and it’s happened, you know, I’ve gone into a large youtuber once and, you know, offered or what I thought was a fair rate, her agent came back at three times that rate. And I had to say, unfortunately, that’s more than the entire production budget for the whole thing. I can’t do it. So I have to walk away. And then they came back and said, Well, well, we’ll wait, what can you do? So like, those are the things you have to be prepared to do on both sides of the table. So having those backup plans and having other options is really important. And I think on the other side of the table from the compensation conversation is reaches not everything anymore, like how many followers you have does not matter. And as a real life example, we were chatting with a client the other day and said, they said, Well, you know, you’re presenting me a bunch of micro influencers, wouldn’t it make more sense to you know, spend some more money on a mid tier influencer? And I said to them, like, why why do you think that that’s important? They’re like, well, I want more reach. And my rebuttal to that was, that’s fair, but you’re paying for potential reach when we go up to the next year. If our goal is just to get some really awesome assets. Why don’t we take that incremental money you’re going to spend on the next year of influencer, spending on the micro influencer input paid media behind that, because then we’re talking actual impressions versus potential reach. Now, you and I could probably debate for another 20 minutes about the value of paid media impressions versus the value of an influencer, you know, impression which, you know, I have my opinions on that. But I think that there’s that conversation as well, that reaches not everything, you know, just because you have 100,000 followers. To me, that’s awesome. But if your engagement rate is point 2%, or point oh 2%. That’s not as valuable as someone with 50,000 followers and a 5% engagement rate. So just figuring those things out is another another layer to think about in the whole conversation around pricing. And I think kind of what you were alluding to on on how do you do this from a union perspective, because there’s just too many layers. There’s a lot of layers, maybe not too many, there’s a lot of layers to try and figure out in order to kind of figure you know, have a have a platform for that as a group.
Jason Falls
Yep. Jeremy Wright says, There you go. Secondary support is huge. And that’s absolutely true. Actually, there’s a case study that I write about in the book which I can’t wait and the publishing process takes too damn long but the book will be out next year and it’ll be fun for everybody say this. But there’s a great case study in there. I think everyone would agree that in the at the superficial level in the influencer marketing world, it would be great to have you know, a Kardashian-Jenner hybrid one of those people post something about your brand on Instagram. So there is a company that I profile in the book, who used one influencer, who had May at the time maybe 2000 social media followers, he had a podcast, which had a few more listeners than that but but was not a Kardashian was not a Jenner did not have hundreds of thousands of anything. It was in the financial services vertical. And so this company reached out to one influencer placed one of their actions decoratives as an interview on his podcast, and from that increased their sales of annuities, which is like $100,000 investment over the course of several years, which the interest adds up and like, you sell one annuity, and the company makes, you know, half a million dollars or whatever. They’re saving sales increased like 14 or 15% for the year. And that’s all they did, is they went to this one influencer and placed one and the person the person didn’t have much of a social network at all. Yep. And so you know, that that my second point and my second concern in the whole union unionization thing, you know, was exactly what you just said, there’s a difference between having followers and having influence.
Crystal Duncan
100% 100%. And there’s different goals for everything, right. Like, I think when we when we’re structuring a program, if we’re looking for a flashy name or something like that, okay, that’s, that’s fair. And a lot of times, again, I work in PR, that mean might be what draws media attention and interest. So that might be the goal. Check the box there. If we’re looking for content creation at scale, or asset usage, or like you said, really engaged, authentic audiences, maybe that’s when we’re looking at our, you know, mid and micro tears, because those are the guys that like, I always make the joke. I’m like, when a micro influencer posts, the comments are not people fighting, it’s not trolls. It’s not people saying first like, like, none of those things that like people count as like, comments, which means that’s a good thing. It’s, you know, it’s a little bit more of an authentic conversation. And whenever you can measure it back to actual business impact past those likes past those comments, I think that is when the beauty of influencer marketing is really able to shine.
Jason Falls
Yeah, very true. All right. So you sit down with a client to discuss an influencer strategy. What new client they’ve never done influencer marketing before, what are the most important topics to discuss and decide upon when you first started?
Crystal Duncan
The very first thing we ever talked about? Honestly, the first thing I will say to them is, you know, why do you want to do influencers? What What is the reason you want to do influencers? Why is this important to you? What is the business goal we’re trying to achieve? Because you cannot, basically can’t build a house without a foundation, you can’t build an influencer strategy without understanding what the goals are, what the premise of the program is. So, you know, the first thing we need to do is understand, what are the goals of this program? Why are we trying to do this? Once we have that direction, then we can start building the foundation. So if we’re, let’s say, we’re trying to drive traffic somewhere, you know, we wouldn’t be doing things like Instagram and feed posts, we can’t drive traffic anywhere, but maybe Twitter’s the right platform, or maybe Instagram Stories are the right platform with a swipe up. So figuring out what these goals are starts to shape our channel strategy. And then once we’ve got a channel strategy figured out, we then can start getting into the fun stuff, the creative who the people are, what they’re going to do, how we’re going to make this come to life. But I think the very first thing we talk about is, what are those goals? Why are we trying to do this? And then obviously, as a marketer, we all know the next question, which is, what is the budget? How much money do I have to play with? What can I do with this stuff? So understanding those two things, first and foremost, is the biggest and then I think the next thing that we counsel on is allowing the influencer to do their thing. We try not to make influencer marketing advertising, like you alluded to earlier, we do not want this to be so overly Addie, that it does not make sense in the influencers feed. Yes, we want to make sure brand messaging is pulled through, yes, we want to make sure our product is pulled through. But we want them to do it in an authentic manner that makes sense to their following to their audience. It shouldn’t look like a commercial, it should look like you know, something that is in line with what they’re already posting. And then we get to do all the fun stuff. I think the other piece that we’re starting to see more and more as an industry is how are we measuring this back business impact, kind of like you were you were just talking about before, likes and shares and comments are great. But what does this mean? How much more stuff have I sold? How much more perception have I shifted? How have I changed things. So Edelman we’re starting to look more into third party validation partners like an IRI or a Nielsen or things like that, to start figuring out how we shift perception out there. Have we actually driven people into stores, you know, that also normally requires that layer of paid media we talked about before. But you know, integrated campaigns are just becoming more and more of the norm. And if we can say that we were able to, you know, change this or impact that or really drive the business. It really gives such a firm reason why influencer marketing should be part of the overall marketing mix.
Jason Falls
Awesome. Ted Murphy has joined the comments over. How about that? He says Crystal is awesome. Ah, who can argue with that? Chip Griffin jokingly jumped in So you mean you’re saying it’s not all about Klout scores. That’s fun. That is fun. Okay, real quick. I’m gonna put you on the spot here. And I’m just gonna put you on the spot because I want to. Who’s your favorite influencer that you’ve worked with? Or maybe just whose content you love. Who’s your favorite influencer out there?
Crystal Duncan
Yeah, so, Edelman was really, really lucky a couple years ago to actually start working with Anthony from Queer Eye, prior to him becoming a really, really big star. And I didn’t get all the direct access to him, but I’m a fan in general. And he is one of those people that is actually really nice. And you know, that’s such a rarity out there. He was a great partner, he was a great person to work with. So I feel like that is definitely one of the cooler experiences that we’ve kind of got to do and find it. You know, again, you work in marketing, the first things who’s up and comer who is someone we can get before they’re big, and we were able to kind of crack that nut on that one. So I would definitely say that that was one of the cooler experiences I’ve had a chance to be a part of, and definitely an awesome person in general to work with.
Jason Falls
That’s pretty cool. I like it. So Crystal where can people find you and Edelman in such on the on the interwebs?
Crystal Duncan
Yeah, so um, obviously edelman.com will be a great place to start. Edelman trust barometer, you can actually find it either through them on.com or honestly just google Edelman trust barometer. It’s got,
Jason Falls
I’m dropping the link. It’s there
Crystal Duncan
Even better, even better, honestly, that that report has some really really really awesome information for any marketers out there. Last year, we also did influencer specific trust barometer and 2019. So you can find that also really good information around the you know, the trust of influencers versus maybe other industry and marketing tactics. And then you guys can find me on LinkedIn. My name is Crystal Duncan, I’m in Chicago. Happy to connect. And this was really fun. Jason, thank you so much for having me on.
Jason Falls
I love talking about influencer marketing, I would talk about it all day, every day if Cornett would lead me to clients and stuff too. And I love having other people’s perspective, especially someone who’s worked on you know, a couple different angles in the industry. I mean, being at IZEA and having that experience and then coming to the agency side. Obviously you you’re one of the handful of people out there who knows it from a bunch of different angles. So love to have you on the show. Thanks for being here.
Crystal Duncan
Thanks again really appreciate it Have a great rest of your day.
Transcribed by otter.ai
The Winfluence theme music is “One More Look” featuring Jacquire King and Stephan Sharp by The K Club found on Facebook Sound Collection.