You could argue that one communications discipline that has changed more than others as a result of the world of social media is public relations. Jim Lin is a PR pro who came to the profession at the dawn of the digital area. He is a digital strategist for Golin, one of the larger public relations firms in the U.S. He and I chatted about the media landscape, why some public relations professionals are still not hip to the whole social media or influencer marketing game, what the mainstream media’s problem is with influencers and a lot more.
But then Jim shared a case study and his philosophy on hyper-local influence. Now this is really fascinating stuff because it takes influence marketing down to the street level, beyond the nano-influencer, even. Jim actually got super granular to tap into people whose primary influence is over their family and friends … and he did it in such a way that it was successful and even scaled, at least within a local market.
And listen closely to how he triangulated the influencers he used. It’s kind of amazing.
Jim’s work goes to another point I underline in the book—everyone has influence. When we’re building strategies to influence, not just those that involve influencers, the offline is as important than the online.
He also dives into his definition of an Alpha consumer, which is kind of the holy grail of influencers to partner with.
Find Jim online on LinkedIn, Twitter or Instagram. His fishing exploits can be found on Instagram at @bourbonandbass.
This episode of Winfluence, the podcast, is sponsored by Winfluence, the book! Get a special discount by clicking the button below, buying on the Entrepreneur Press bookstore and using the discount code FALLS20. That earns you 20% off the retail price, just for being a Winfluence (the podcast) listener. Read and learn why we’ve been backed into a corner to think influencer marketing means Instagram and YouTube and how reframing it to be “influence” marketing makes us smarter marketers.
Order Winfluence now!
This episode of Winfluence, the podcast, is sponsored by Winfluence, the book! Get a special discount by clicking the button below, buying on the Entrepreneur Press bookstore and using the discount code FALLS20. That earns you 20% off the retail price, just for being a Winfluence (the podcast) listener. Read and learn why we’ve been backed into a corner to think influencer marketing means Instagram and YouTube and how reframing it to be “influence” marketing makes us smarter marketers.
Winfluence Transcript – Jim Lin – Golin
Jason Falls
Hello again, friends thanks for listening to Winfluence – The Influence Marketing Podcast. You could argue that the communications discipline that has changed more than others as a result of the world of social media is public relations. PR is the profession I’ve always considered my base of operations. I was a PR professional before I ever thought about social media or influence marketing, though I would argue that public relations has always been about influencers in a broad sense.
Jason Falls
Jim Lin is another PR pro who came to the profession at the dawn of the digital era. He’s a digital strategist for Golin, one of the larger media firms in the US. He and I chatted about the media landscape why some public relations professionals are still not hip to the whole social media or influencer marketing game, what the mainstream media’s problem is with influencers and a lot more. But then Jim shared a case study and his philosophy on hyper local influence. Now this is really fascinating stuff because it takes influence marketing, down to the street level beyond the nano influencer, even Jim actually got super granular to tap into people whose primary influences over their family and friends. And he did it in such a way that it was successful and even scaled, at least within a local market, and listen closely to how he triangulated the influencers he used. It’s actually kind of amazing. Jim’s work goes to another point I underline in the book. Everyone has influence. When we’re building strategies to influence not just those that involve influencers, the offline is as important as the online. He also dives into his definition of an alpha consumer, which is kind of a holy grail of influencers to partner with. It’s roll up your sleeves and do some grunt work influence marketing today. Pay attention and take notes. Jim Lin is next on Winfluence.
Jason Falls
This is normally the point in the program where someone jumps in and says, “Support for today’s podcast …” Well support for today’s episode of Winfluence – The Influence Marketing Podcast is brought to you by Winfluence the book! Winfluence – Reframing Influencer Marketing to Ignite Your Brand is available now from Entrepreneur Press. You can find it in bookstores everywhere, but I’ll have a special place to go online and get a discount in just a second so get ready to jot down a note. Winfluence the book is not just a strategic blueprint to help you employ smart influence marketing strategies for your business or clients. But it explains why our common perception of influencer marketing is all wrong. I take you through how to rethink and reframe the concepts to turn influencer marketing into influence marketing, broaden the perspective and open new avenues of leveraging influential people online and offline to grow your business. Here’s the special URL and discount code just for you the listeners of this podcast go to jasonfalls.co/buywinfluence. That’s jasonfalls.co/buywinfluence. That takes you to the book on the Entrepreneur Press bookstore, buy the book and use the code FALLS20 – all caps – F-A-L-L-S-2-0 and get 20% off the retail price. The address again is jasonfalls.co/buywinfluence. Leave a review on Amazon after you read it because select reviews will be read here on the show. Winfluence – Reframing Influencer Marketing to Ignite Your Brand is available now. Go to jasonfalls.co/buywinfluence. and use the code FALLS20 today.
Jason Falls
So Jim, Golin is a big PR firm and you lead digital strategy there perhaps it’s it’s where I am I’m in that odd line between the Midwest and the South. But I’m still surprised when I see PR firms that prioritize digital despite the fact that the Golins the Edelman’s, the Ketchums, of the world have been integrated for years now. Why do you think some PR pros have been so slow to make that move?
Jim Lin
I think it’s inertia, right? I think PR has made a name for itself ever since it started in media relations. Right? And Media Relations has been the bread and butter. And I don’t think any PR firm would deny that digital is just a huge part of communications. But it’s not easy to just shift to digital right? Because if you’re if you’re a large agency how do you know you’re finding the best digital talent? That’s not your specialty. And so you’re gonna have to trust that the people you hire, know what they’re doing know what they’re talking about can hire the right people. And it’s a big shift. Recognizing digital is a big part of PR communications isn’t the big shift, it’s actually going and doing it. And then once you’re there, you know, how committed are you into making sure that digital is integrated everything you do. You know, it also requires trust in folks who are more junior who are just coming into the job market. And I think digital has turned that seniority thing on its head, right? If I’m an accountant, and I need an accountant who’s has 35 years of accounting experience, they’re gonna have much more experience than I have, like, without a doubt, but it digital, it’s almost reverse, right? I’m probably I started my career digital in 1998, when it was literally just banner ads, that’s all I had to worry about. But I remember going into meetings of the young 20 something year old, going into a meeting about interactive marketing, right, and sitting there in the room going nobody here knows more than I do about interactive marketing. And that’s, it’s, it’s it’s kind of turned industry in professionalism on its head. And that, you know, the older you are doesn’t mean the more you know, and recognizing that I think is very hard and acknowledging that as hard as well. And I’m an old timer, I’m digital 20 plus years. But they’re kids coming into this that they’ll they’ll go viral on TikTok before anything I could do.
Jason Falls
That’s true. You know, I had Arik Hanson on the show not long ago, and he triangulated some stats that showed 76% I think it was a PR professionals 76% of their time of PR professionals time is spent on traditional media yet two thirds or more of consumers say they’re influenced for purchases for purchase decisions by social media influencers weekly. Now, Arik theorized that what he called boomers, but I think he certainly meant, you know, just people who are 45 and older, probably older PR pros are somehow biased against influencers, does that hold any truth for you?
Jim Lin
Yeah, because it’s it’s new territory. It’s something that they don’t understand. And I don’t mean it, they don’t understand it academically, they understand it academically. But until you live and breathe it, you don’t internalize it, they live and breathe Media Relations. They know that a placement in USA Today or people is the holy grail their client is looking for, they’re not on Instagram every day, looking at influencer content, they’re not scrolling through TikTok seeing the power of influencers, to create culture, not just flow with it. And until you until you internalize that by actually living it, you only have an academic understanding of it. And when you have an academic understanding of it, right, you’re just looking at your reading articles and allow the articles we were talking about this earlier, a lot of articles out there are discredited influencer marketing, right, because that’s, that’s that’s the a-ha story. Like told you this thing that you guys were all into, is really just, you know, smoke and mirrors. And you read about that. And obviously, being media people, they trust the media, and that’s where they get their information. So unless you live this every day, and feel the effect of what influencers can do, or just people who influence your life can do. I don’t think you’ll fully embrace it.
Jim Lin
Do you think the mainstream media folks tend to mock influencers out of ignorance or jealousy? Because I mean, most of the influencers, that some reporters mock, have more followers than the media outlets that pay their salaries? Right?
Jim Lin
I think it’s, it’s a little of both, right? It’s a little bit of, you know, just not understanding it. But I think a lot of it is like, why is this? Why does this person have 3 million followers hanging on their every word waiting for their next video? It’s, it’s a it’s a trend, right? This isn’t gonna sustain. So I do think it’s a little of both, I mean, it is threatening, right? It is threatening that, you know, some brands or TV shows won’t, or media properties won’t have even close to the number of followers that some some dude that just plays video games, and YouTube will get. It’s, it’s just the reality now and it’s just the way people consume media and content. And, you know, it’s, it’s scary, it’s scary to see something so drastic happening so relatively quickly.
Jason Falls
So I tend to look at influence marketing without the R because I think that influences what we’re trying to do. That’s our goal. That’s the action we’re taking. And that subtle change in labeling I think opens a wider lens on the practice so you’re not focusing on Instagramers and YouTubers. So you know, customer, you know, advocacy efforts are influenced marketing to me. Word of mouth marketing is in phrase marketing to me. I know that you have zeroed in on what you call, I think, you know, local level marketing or hyperlocal, marketing beyond nano influencers. Take me through your philosophy on reaching those people. And take us through an idea too, that you’ve executed that has employed them with some success.
Jim Lin
Yeah, I’d love to. And I agree 100% it’s influenced marketing influence influencing come from anywhere, my next door neighbor telling me where to eat is going to influence my decision on where to eat more so than a huge YouTuber. And that is a fact. And that is a fact that’s been back with numbers. And the idea of a hyperlocal influencer is exactly that. There have been programs I’ve been lucky enough to work on where their objective was really hyper focused marketing, where they were like, we’d really like influencers, to be part of this program. You know, moms, dads, parents, whatever. And the reality with quote, unquote, influencer marketing is when you’re working with or partnering with influencers, quote, unquote, their influence is all over the map. I might live in Boston, Massachusetts, but I’ll have followers in Seattle, Los Angeles, Dallas, right? Because the Internet has no borders. If I’m good at cooking, let’s say, Why only, why would only Boston foodies follow me unless my content was Boston specific. And that’s the one exception, I always say, you can find influencers whose content is about a certain geographic location, then you can ensure that most of their audiences there, but that’s those are far and few between. So the concept behind hyperlocal influencer marketing is, you know, I had that directive, we want to use influencers. But we want to keep this influence to local five local cities, let’s say we want to promote a certain product within five local cities. And using influencers will be a big waste of money. Even if I found an influencer, who lived in that city, only at best 5% of their audience will be from that same city. So I said, Let’s, let’s turn this around and think about this. When in this whole scenario, would you only have followers from your city, or at least a large percentage? And I thought, well, if you’re not an influencer, let’s just take like, you know, you probably have a lot of friends and family who you look at their Instagram, maybe they have 900,000 followers, but you know, they’re all neighbors, co workers, relatives, just people they interact with every day, and the chances of them being in the local city are much bigger than an influencer. So is that how do we find these people and get them to talk about our product?
Jim Lin
Again, there’s no software or platform out there that will find these people because most databases, find people with higher levels of influence a or self there. These are, these are databases where you go and enter yourself, right. But if you go in into yourself into an influencer database, that means your ambition is to go beyond your friends and family, your ambition is to go big. So your content, who you engage with how you get yourself out there is going to naturally pull people from all over. So I couldn’t go that route. And so it was really Oh, I’ve got to actually do some surgical listening on these platforms. And how do I find parents in certain cities, and ensure that and find those people with 800 1200 followers who are only in their local cities? And, you know, we did it in a kind of a funny roundabout way. The first thing I thought of was, well, let’s go to Instagram, they’d have search because at that time, Instagram, cut off their API to social listening platforms. And I just did it. How would I find parents in let’s say, Philadelphia? Well, I could do hashtag Philadelphia, hashtag parents, but a lot of those people that came up, were influencers because they knew how to use hashtags to get more people to come to their content. So that didn’t work out. Then I was like, let me look at people tagging locations of places parents would frequent. The first things that came to mind were like, Philadelphia zoo. All right, let’s do that. But a lot of people visiting Philadelphia zoo, who were parents who are not influencers, were also tourists, so they weren’t living in Philadelphia. Next step down that I had to really think how do I find people who are parents who are not tourists who are not influencers based on where they’re location tagging, and I call this the Chucky Cheese method. The Chucky Cheese method netted dozens of hyperlocal influencers because you would never go and tag Chucky Cheese you would never set foot in Chucky Cheese unless you’re a parent and you were dragged kicking and screaming to Chucky Cheese. Number two. If you’re a tourist, you’re never going to Chucky Cheese. All of these parents who were tagging Chucky Cheese, were the perp. I found that sweet spot. I was looking at all these cities that we needed hyperlocal influencers? Or actually I didn’t call them hyper local influencers, I call them hyper local influentials. Yes. So people that had a larger than normal following, meaning they were influential, but they weren’t influencers, they never worked with brands, it would never crossed their mind to work with brands. And that was the best part, and found these hyperlocal, influentials in these cities through the Chucky Cheese method, and dozens of them and we reached out to them. And the great part about this is if you’re just a regular, everyday parent with no ambition to be an influencer, and all of a sudden a big brand comes to you and say, Hey, we want you to try this at all we ask you in return is that you just post your expense on Instagram, they’re gonna be flattered, like most of the people we reach out to so how did you even find me? I’m just a parent in Philadelphia.
Jason Falls
We’ve got our crazy Jim guy over here.
Jim Lin
Of course, we didn’t say we stopped you at Chucky Cheese. But they were pleasantly surprised they did it. And and, you know, because this was the one thing that we did for the brand that was that was special or unique in that city. And we weren’t changing anything else we were doing the greatest part of this was after this program, we could actually measure sales impact. And we did see sales impact because these people were posting about their experience with the brand. And their followers were their neighbors, their friends, their co workers. And they were probably really amazed that this brand gave them stuff or gave them this experience, because they knew their friend wasn’t an influencer. And that intrigued them and they’re like, I’m gonna go try that I’m gonna try that we like we boosted sales 4%.
Jason Falls
Wow.
Jim Lin
And you know, that is tedious. And so it’s not always going to be economically feasible to do that. But if that’s what you want to do, and you have a directed to do that, there is a way to do that. But it just goes to show that influence can come from anywhere. And it’s not just big influencers that we got to target we have to understand the dynamics of social media and how influence propagates throughout your network.
Jason Falls
So I listened to your chat with Scott Guthrie on the Influencer Marketing Lab podcast, which for those out there listening and interested in influencer marketing, it’s a must subscribe. So go go find the Influencer, Influencer Marketing Lab podcast with Scott Guthrie and subscribe to that. Now I believe that conversation was pre election. But you had an interesting take that I think is similar to your hyper local thing on micro influencers that contextualizes that level of influencer a bit differently than I had heard before. How does your concept of alpha consumers compare to what you just described as hyper locals?
Jim Lin
I’ve always liked to look at micro influencers in a different way and look at them as alpha consumers. Basically, there’s there’s this trend to go smaller and smaller and smaller. What I call alpha consumer is what a lot of people might call a nano influencer. Okay? Right. There’s a lot of similarities there. But the alpha consumer is someone that puts the products front and center in their content is really great at creating content around a product and generating enthusiasm for that product. Because they become known in their social circles as the person that finds the cool stuff that finds it first. And their ambition. I want to work with influencers whose ambition is not to become a super mega influencer star, but just as happy in their role in their social circles. As someone who everyone sees, as you always find the cool stuff, and I want, I want to look at your content to know what to buy, what foods to buy, you know what to watch, and I love tapping that alpha consumer layer, because they’re not influencers. And because they’re not influencers, there’s just a different dynamic and that they can be more product focused. They don’t have to kind of almost disguise or watered down the fact that they’re being sponsored. Alpha consumers are proud of the fact that this brand found them and wants to partner with them to create content for the brand. And I think that’s really important. I know when influencer marketing first started, you know, because I was a parent blogger back in the day. And I worked with a lot of brands as a parent blogger. And one of the things I always sought to do was, how do I make it not so sponsoring? Right? How do I kind of weave this organically into my life? So I’m not just being a shill. And I think there’s still is that like how do we keep that organic vibe in this content so people don’t think I’m a shill for this brand that I’m just saying I use this because I’m getting paid. But what I love when alpha consumers is like products and brands are the center of their life, it’s their hobby, it’s their passion, and they will come out and just promote a product because hey, I am so good at this stuff that brands are seeing me as a worthy partner. That’s something to be proud of that I can create content that this brand wants to highlight in their own social content. Like why should I be ashamed of that. And I love that alpha consumer mentality because there’s a time and place for everything. And there is a place for brand content. That’s why brands on social media creating content, they know they have to create content. So why not create content as diverse a means as possible through as many voices as possible? Because I strongly believe that if content is good, it’s good. Right? It doesn’t matter whether it’s hidden or integrated, if I’m creating great content that makes people think about why my product is different, why you should think about my product, why you should go buy my product. There’s an art to that, right? There’s an art to that just like people watch the Super Bowl for commercials, there’s an art to marketing that people appreciate. And I love alpha consumers because they’re refreshing in that way.
Jason Falls
So what you just described as the alpha consumer is almost exactly how Ted Wright describes the type of person necessary to start word of mouth marketing campaigns with it. Is it too much of a stretch to say that micro influencers alpha consumers then might be the bridge that can spark True Word of mouth one to one conversations about a brand? And and the online influence world?
Jim Lin
Yeah, I definitely think so. Because when you’re working with micro influencers, there’s definitely a much, much more authentic tie in that they’re not, I don’t feel they’re trying to hide anything, like I mentioned before, and but there’s that authenticity, because they’re smaller, and their audience is more engaged. And they have a much more friends and family audience, which is why I like micro influencers, much more friends and family. And the people that follow them, follow them for their expertise or credibility in something, right, they’re not going after the big million audience because they don’t know anything about that topic. Right, that will get them that million followers I, I love fishing, right is a great example. I’m a fishing fanatic. And the influencers I follow in the outdoor space in the fishing space, right? They’re never gonna make it to millions of followers because people that are into bass fishing, right, but their 100,000 followers are hanging on their every word, what lure did you use yesterday What conditions Did you fish in? they’re the experts. And I’m looking at them for expertise. So what they say I trust a lot more, because that’s the reason I’m following him. I’m following them because they work with these brands. I’m following because these brands look to them as worthy ambassadors to communicate aspects of the brand that will appeal to me as a consumer, they’re like a trusted conduit between the consumer and the brand. That I think, you know, when you get to the large macro influencers, it’s not that expertise. It’s more the Association of their coolness or their status, right, that that that the brands can tap into the brands are tapping into the fact that the Kardashians have this cool status. The Kardashians are not experts in nerds, candy, right? They have a status, that if they’re eating nerds, candy, I want to be like a Kardashian, I want to do everything that they say I’m going to go buy nerds candy, that’s another pathway in. But if I’m following this person that is just nuts about candy all day long, right? That’s another pathway in that if you like this candy, I know I’m going to love it. Right? It’s not I want to be cool. Like you. It’s, I trust your opinion of it. And that’s the difference between I think a macro influencer and a micro influencer. It’s the opinion and the credibility of that opinion, versus their status as an aspirational person in your life that you just want to be like for a second even. It’s just because you eat the same candy as they do.
Jason Falls
So what you’re describing here is is I think, a trend that we’re seeing in the influence space, which is a better definition of different types of influence. Yeah, there are libraries who are aspirational. or there might even be micro influencers or trying to become that mid tier mega influencers, who are aspirational in nature you want they want to display a lifestyle that other people would aspire to. And then there are people who were like, let me show you how to, you know, cut this piece of paper six ways with this razor blade, and they’re more instructional help you know, tips and tricks how to folks I love the fact that the trends are, you know, I think Onalytica, one of the software companies has divided up six different categories of influencers, which includes, you know, influencers because they’re people at brands and Industry analysts as a separate category. And then I think Aspire IQ and some of the other folks have started to divide up the different categories of influencers in different ways. Do you think that shows, I mean, obviously, it shows a maturation of the of the industry. But do you think we’re headed to a path where, let’s say, two, three years from now, we’re going to get to a point where there’s the world of influence marketing, but everybody sort of understands where influencers belong? And what different types there are for the different types of, you know, marketing activations that you’re looking to go for? Are we going to fine tune it to that point? Or are we going to have to put up with a lot more wild west until we get to that point,
Jim Lin
I think we’re gonna put up with a lot more wild west. But I think eventually we’re gonna get there. You know, influencer, marketing is just a more specific example of digital and how that’s advanced. Right. And when I first started in digital, there wasn’t much out there. And where I feel lucky, and people kind of, of my generation who are in digital, we’re lucky because we grew up with it. I’m a digital generalist in my job, I will dabble in anything because I’ve done it. I did it when it came out. SEO, newsletter marketing, display, advertising, social media, blogging, anything you can think of, I experienced it as it happened. So I absorb that. But as digital marketing has become more siloed, because there’s so many specialties, someone coming out of school right now, it’s almost impossible to ask them to have this generalist general practitioner view, because they may have specialized or learned about social media marketing, or they may have learned about paid amplification, SEO, SEM, right? There’s so many specialties and you can dive so deep within them that when you’re just coming out of school now, you probably have a lot of expertise in one of these silos. But it’s really hard to find someone with all of that generalized expertise. And influencer marketing is just the next layer. Right? You’ll have influencer experts now, that can be experts at all things influencer. But as these things specialize, like b2b influencers are an example of this b2b influence is a whole different dynamic of how to identify them how to work with them, there will be people that specialize in b2b influence, they’ll be specialists that in this peak specialists who specialize in that macro, celebrity slash macro tier, that’s a whole other dynamic to working with them. Right? Then there’s going to be that layer that works with a mid tier slash micro, then alpha, then if I’m lucky, and this catches on hyper local, right, there will be so many areas of specialization. And I’ve realized that there’s a different dynamic to not just identifying them, but working with them. You know, how do we negotiate contracts? How do we go through creative briefs with them? There’s a different way of doing it. And eventually we’ll get there. I don’t think we’re there yet.
Jim Lin
But all throughout this and I mentioned this, this in Scott’s podcast as well, all throughout this, there are always going to be tools that try to make it easier to get us ahead of that curve. That make everyone an influencer expert just by clicking a few buttons. And my biggest fear of the influencer marketing marketing industry is reliance on those tools. And I referred to it in his podcast as the spreadsheet-ification of influencer marketing. because more and more I see people are agencies with influencer experts, quote unquote, that just have access to these tools. And they type something in and it spits out 10 influencers. They’re like here, here you go. It’s matched exactly by audience, demographic, psychographic size of followers even vetting whether they have bots, following them. And what I was always just kept me interested in influencer marketing or influenced marketing, I think it’s more appropriate to influence marketing in this case, is the fact that there’s this human element, there’s an art and science influence marketing, right? There’s just something about a human being going, going into someone’s account or looking at their social media behavior and saying this will fit for my brand, because, you know, because every once in a while, they’ll use us where we’re not brands, a little more lax about that and they’d like someone who’s more relatable, who isn’t afraid of cursing but hasn’t, you know, hasn’t done anything too bad. Like these are things that are important to match your brand personality, but also the objective you’re trying to reach and who you’re trying to reach. And that’s that art side that I think only human beings can do, at least at this point until AI gets far beyond us, like the good influencer marketers that I have worked with all have that human element where they can go in and instinctually kind of vet somebody and say this person is perfect, this person is my second choice because this is my third. And this is something that the platform’s can do. And when you have a real winning influencer program, it’s because you’ve added that human element I always love to have someone on my team that loves that world whether it’s lifestyle cooking influencers pet who lives and breathes that world because they’ll know that dynamic Oh, you know, they’re really nice to their commenters or this person doesn’t really reply that much the commenters you know, I want someone who’s warm and engaging I’m going to choose that person even if it has fewer followers, that takes the time to respond back to comments like those are the things that the platform is just can’t identify right now and they can give you the numbers but I believe that like you gotta go beyond the spreadsheet when you’re doing influencer marketing.
Jason Falls
Amen my next sore from nodding the whole time. Jim where can people connect with you online if they want to follow up
Jim Lin
if they want to follow up they can always email me at Jim.Lynn at Golin.com, but if they just want to, you know, interact with me I’m on I’m on pretty much all the social platforms. Twitter @OfficialJimLin, Instagram @OfficialJimLin, LinkedIn – Jim Lin FTW. And I will try to promote my fishing Instagram because I would love to get famous for fishing. It’s @bourbonandbass on Instagram. Please help me become a famous angler so that I can get free brand stuff from fishing companies.
Jason Falls
Well, you got bourbon in your name, so you’re well on your way with my audience cause …
Jim Lin
Good. Follow @bourbonandbass that’s the one I want to build. I don’t care about anything else. Those are all ones where I used to engage with friends and family and co workers. And I had those when I was a blogger and I use those like promote my blog, but I’ve taken my blog off and all my bios that those days are past me. I’m just trying to be big in fishing.
Jason Falls
Bourbon and bass, I love it. We’ll link to it all in the show notes.
Jim Lin
I love it
Jason Falls
Jim, thanks for the insights man appreciate you joining us.
Jim Lin
Thank you It’s great talking to you.
Transcribed by otter.ai
The Winfluence theme music is “One More Look” featuring Jacquire King and Stephan Sharp by The K Club found on Facebook Sound Collection.
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This episode of Winfluence, the podcast, is sponsored by Winfluence, the book! Get a special discount by clicking the button below, buying on the Entrepreneur Press bookstore and using the discount code FALLS20. That earns you 20% off the retail price, just for being a Winfluence (the podcast) listener. Read and learn why we’ve been backed into a corner to think influencer marketing means Instagram and YouTube and how reframing it to be “influence” marketing makes us smarter marketers.