Can influence marketing save broadway? Or how about arts organizations in general? Save might be an inappropriate word. Certainly, COVID and the pandemic restrictions of 2020 have had a huge financial impact on the arts, as would any economically challenging time. And broadway theatres, along with arts centers, theatres, community troops and groups are going to have to resort to some scrappiness in the coming year to get re-established.
Is Influence marketing the key?
Sam Maher started Yes Broadway as a media company — an online magazine if you will — to help people figure out what shows to see, which were duds and the like. It was when he stepped into a producer’s role that he realized influencers could get the word out about the shows. But when he became a producer of a show, he realized he could get influencers to help promote the experience.
He joined Winfluence to discuss what he’s learned, talk about how he’s now turned on an influence marketing agency arm of YesBroadway and more.
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Winfluence Podcast – Sam Maher Transcript
Jason Falls
Hello again friends thanks for listening to Winfluence – The Influence Marketing Podcast. Can influence marketing save Broadway, or how about arts organizations in general? Well, “save” might be an inappropriate word first, I don’t think influence marketing alone can save an entire anything. It’s one piece of a larger marketing puzzle. Regardless of how amazing its benefits can be. Second, Broadway and arts organizations aren’t exactly dying. Certainly COVID and the pandemic restrictions of 2020 have had a huge financial impact on the arts. As with any economically challenging time and Broadway theaters along with art centers, theaters, community troops and groups are going to have to resort to some scrappiness in the coming year to get reestablished.
Jason Falls
Sam Mayer started Yes, Broadway as a media company and online magazine, if you will, to help people figure out what shows to see which were duds and the like. It was when he stepped into a producer’s role though, that he realized influencers can get the word out about shows he started offering influence marketing outreach as a product to supplement Yes, Broadway’s bottom line and in the process may have just stumbled upon the best way for arts organizations to rekindle the awareness and desire to see shows. I talked to Sam recently about that epiphany what he learned reaching out to influencers for the first time and what other arts organizations can do to leverage influencers in a fun theatrical addition of Winfluence.
Jason Falls
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Jason Falls
Sam, my favorite Broadway memory was watching Nathan Lane in “A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum.” Some lady came in late and was scooting through the crowd during the opening number, which is “Tragedy Tomorrow, Comedy Tonight.” And Lane stops the show … screams everyone to a halt and says to this poor woman, “Everyone else made it by 7:30 What’s your excuse?” I don’t think I’ve ever laughed so hard. He went on for like two or three minutes, then raised his hand and on cue everyone jumped right back into the song exactly where they left off. And then later in another number. He even pulled off a neat callback. I think the lyrics were something like “everyone enjoys the feast” or something like that. And he pointed right at her and said “Not you! You were late!”
Sam Maher
So a lot of mine asked me like what it is about live theater versus movies or TV and that right there is exactly what it is because if you’re watching a movie with Nathan Lane, he’s totally not talking to you and making fun of you.
Jason Falls
That’s true. But the live theater element I mean that that has to be by far my favorite. What’s your favorite Broadway moment? What’s what sticks out to you?
Sam Maher
Um, you know, that’s a pretty easy question to answer for me only because I have one Broadway producing credit with the mark shell so of course opening night of you know, the first and only Broadway musical I’ve ever been a producer of was a pretty special feeling. Sure, I have so many that I could probably give you my top five and they would all be tied for the number one spot. And I would say opening night of the first only Broadway musical I’ve ever produced is definitely gonna supersede all the other answers.
Jason Falls
That’s Yeah, that’s got to be a pretty significant memory for you. So tell tell tell us about Yes. Broadway, it appears to be such a neat resource for people looking for kind of the inside inside scoop on shows and tickets and, and such, how did it start? What is it that you do? And how does now influence marketing factor in there?
Sam Maher
Awesome. So yes, Broadway was actually started as a media company versus an advertising or marketing agency. And the way that it sort of evolved, I think, is actually one of the reasons it’s so successful as an influencer marketing agency, only because I started it as a media company as a resource for consumers, who were overwhelmed by all the choices of what to see on Broadway and in New York City theater. I the experience of in the early 2010s, like 2010, to 2015 taking a lot of friends to theater who weren’t that in the theater, because I kind of got back into it. And things were going well in my life. So I had some money. And I was like, Great, let’s go a lot. So I would take friend after friend who weren’t theatre people, and I quickly learned what non theatre people are into and what they’re not. Um, and I turned that into, yes, probably his immediate company, that skill of sort of identifying that because I’m a musical theater superfan. I love the stuff that like, you know, people who aren’t that in the theater are gonna be like, Oh, my God, this is a snooze fest is not for me, for as I’m sitting there loving every second, versus the stuff that they actually, you know, really would like, most of the time, that translates into something like, you know, the the more contemporary stuff, the musicals with radio ready music versus the, you know, old traditional classical musicals, or, you know, young, relevant storylines, every now and again, there’s exceptions to that rule. But for the most part, you know, I’m talking about the Hamilton dear Ivan hands and be more chills of the world versus, you know, the revival of my fair lady, or the revival of the king tonight, which are great for me and people who love musical theater, but maybe not the best introduction to theater, or that’s night out for, you know, someone who’s not that into theater. So I created this resource to be a sort of listing. This is what you should see, this is what you should avoid. And this is the stuff that is going to make you realize that fear actually can be super cool, super fun. And for people who aren’t that into theater, I think Hamilton sort of, you know, re blew up in the doors for all of us in 2015. With that, because all of a sudden was this mammoth of a show that was like perfectly aligned with this idea of you do not have to be in the theater at all to really enjoy Hamilton. So it started as a media company and things were going really well you know, Broadway is super, super small. The industry is so tiny. And so it was actually fairly easy for me to sort of elbow my way in there. You know, within a few months of starting Yes, Broadway I was already on red carpets next to all of the major players. You know, playbill, theater mania broadway.com, which is very cool and very exciting. And I love sort of being you know, that this media personality and interviewing my favorite Broadway stars on red carpet and recommending shows and getting press tickets, it was all very exciting. But just like any media company revenue was super hard to come by. on the because to, you know, sell advertising or get sponsored posts, which you know, even a few years ago wasn’t a thing on Broadway was super hard. So when be more chill came along, which was a musical that I was super obsessed with just as a super fan. And I got involved as a producer. And they say that one of the best things about being a producer of feeder for the first time is that you get to listen in on a lot of meetings, you get to really like hear how it works and see how it works. And that was actually very true for me, I loved every second of just sort of learning and seeing how the inside of the multimillion dollar musical worked. And it was at that time in those meetings where me and 40 other producers you know, we would get our five seconds to chime in with one question or one thought and mine was always wait influencer marketing is something that this shows specifically should be doing Of course, I already was thinking like Broadway as a whole needs to be doing this but this show specifically because be more chill story is that it had a massive fan base before it even arrived Off Broadway, much less Broadway. It was sort of the first Broadway musical that ever arrived on Broadway because fans demanded on social media versus a producer wanting to you know, put money into something and put up a show. So it had all of this, you know, incredible hype.
Sam Maher
And, you know, that was of course within the world of theater and Broadway and musical theater Phantom. So my thought was, that’s going to be super easy to translate into Getting influencers involved? And I started yes probably as the influencer marketing branch of yes Broadway right then in there as a chance to say like the problem with a lot of Broadway shows marketing efforts is they’re not reaching out to people who aren’t theater goers. And if you got every single Broadway superfan in the world to buy a ticket, you still wouldn’t be selling enough tickets to pay your bills. So you know, Broadway as a whole certainly needs to be reaching out more to to to other audiences and other potential customers and be more chill specifically being a show that you know, was radio ready music super young, relevant themes. It was very like hip energetic show that certainly was not a snooze fest was a perfect chance to do that. Because I said, You know, I can get fashion people in here I can get travel influencers in your I can get food influencers in here. Or let me say that I didn’t know that I could get them in there. But I knew if I could, they would enjoy it. Sure. Um, and so my, my first task was, yep, okay, great. I’ve said I can do this, let me figure out how to do this. And it turned out to be sort of the first step in what I like to call a crash course in becoming an influencer marketing agency. So be more chill happen be because also, you know, in those meetings, where I got to chime in as producer, the social media team would say, you know what, you’re right, Tam influencer marketing would be perfect for this. And that’s us, but not really. And the press team that the PR team would be like, you know what, yep, that’s us, but not really. And the advertising team would say, Oh, yeah, that’s us. But not really, the problem with a lot of Broadway shows is that they don’t have a marketing director, believe it or not, which is wild. Oftentimes, they’ll have an advertising agency, which is handling most of the advertising. And then the marketing just sort of ends up being this tinge of intangible word of mouth thing. So I sort of took it upon myself to say, Alright, let’s, let’s separate this out. Let me see what I can do in terms of like getting influencers and it was so simple to me. I said, Listen, I’m going to make a database I’m going to go through Instagram BIOS and see who has email addresses new doesn’t and send them an invite three big questions I had one is would they come? You know, would they want to come see a Broadway show? If I’m talking to like a fashion influencer or a food influencer or travel influencer? Would we need to pay them? You know, I knew that their Broadway budgets are always slimmer than you know, you can even possibly imagine. And I knew that there was going to be no money for sponsored content, it was all gonna have to be unkind. just invite them and hope they post which brings me to my third concern, which is would they pass? And I learned very quickly that the answer to all three of those questions was Yes, a resounding yes. Within the first couple weeks of doing this, I had influencers lined up so excited to come on, like read the whole first few weeks were like, filled up all my seats that they given me for filling with influencers. People who, you know, were were streetwear influencers, like sneaker head, guys, you would never think would be intro probably shower like, absolutely. Can I come on Thursday, I’ll bring my girlfriend, it’s a great date night. Um, and they weren’t concerned about getting paid. Like I didn’t get a single response. I was like, but can you pay me to come and post about this? And then, you know, within the first weeks, I realized that almost every single influencer, we’ve invited was posting it. This is great. This is working. This is absolutely working. And you know, like I said, Broadway is small, the word got around pretty quickly that this is working so well. And a lot of other Broadway shows hire started hiring me to do it. Because I developed this database. And they were like, Great, let’s do the exact same thing.
Sam Maher
Within three months of launching the influencer marketing branch of Yes, Friday, I was already turning down clients, which was great, very good feeling because I was like, great, this is this is really, really working. And the cool thing is, you know, I was worried from day one, when I started getting new clients new Broadway shows, I was very worried that they that I would get the shows that the influencers wouldn’t want to go see the shows that are for theater people, and then aren’t going to really like and what I learned pretty quickly is that the producers who are producing the young, cool hip shows are the ones who are open influencer marketing, and they are doing the old school classical shirts are not open to it. So I didn’t even have to address that issue. So yes, probably continue to exist as a media company throughout this whole time. And where that ends us now. Is that yes, Broadway in 2020, has basically come a resource that looks like it’s really still for consumers. You know, I when you go to Instagram or the website, you’ll see it’s like meant to still be the same thing it was when it originally started, which was a chance for people who aren’t that into theater or don’t know anything about Broadway, to be pointed in the right direction directions and say this is cool. Maybe I should avoid this. And what’s happened is that’s kind of turned into a resource for influencers. Because of course, all these you know, hundreds of thousands of influencers I’ve invited to shows over the past couple of years. have followed the account. And so it kind of works out great that I’m creating content, media content, almost as a media company. But to get influencers excited about the invite that they’re about to get, let’s say, you’re selling them a ticket,
Jason Falls
That actually makes perfect sense. Because if you’re reaching out to influencers who aren’t necessarily, you know, Broadway theater influencers, but they’re, you know, street teams and their sneakers, and they’re gamers and their fashion and their food, they may not necessarily know enough about Broadway to understand what to tell their fans. And so you’re not only engaging them on behalf of your clients, which you’re giving them the the valuable information that they need in order to speak intelligently about the entire opportunity to their crowd. That’s really genius.
Sam Maher
Right. And they’re kind of the same as, as the consumer. You know, before I started the influencer marketing branch, I would always have in the back of my mind when I was creating content for Broadway, I was always thinking about, you know, those friends when I was taking the theater for those few years, who weren’t that in the theater? What would they like? Or what would they like me to say to them that explains to them in context, what this is, why they should see it, why it’s exciting, etc. And when I had to shift gears and kind of have the influencer in the back of my head as who I was creating content for, it was actually no change. I said, Oh, that’s the same thing. They want to know the same information. So yes, probably is a media company turned influencer marketing agency with also a producing branch. But I think, a good way to describe that that sort of umbrella idea is I’m very committed and excited and passionate about the idea of getting more people in the theater, specifically more young people in the theater. So whether that’s through media content, or through influencer marketing, that that’s my goal is to get more young people into theater into Broadway, and seeing it to help save this industry that was already in trouble before a pandemic hit much less after.
Jason Falls
No doubt. So when I when I think of Broadway, and I’m not, you know, I was involved in theater in school, I’ve always been in the performing arts world, whether it be broadcasting or whatever. So I’m familiar. I’m a fan of been I was in shows when I was in school, I’ve you know, been to, I can’t count how many Broadway shows I’ve been to. So I’m very familiar, although I’m not I don’t live in New York. So I’m not daily, you know, in and out the whole Broadway scene. But I guess when most people think of Broadway and even I guess to a degree, when I think of Broadway these days, I typically think of the mega hits and the mega shows. So your your Hamiltons your lion kings, your dear Evan Hansen’s your rent, you know, that kind of thing, going back to my day, you know, the phantoms, the so on and so forth. And so when you first told me that you connect Broadway shows with influencers, to help promote the shows, my first thought was, what help do they need, I can never get the tickets I want when I’m in New York, but that shows my ignorance of the industry before COVID. And then with COVID, things have been, as you said, a lot harder for the shows, I would imagine. So give us an idea of just how big the Broadway industry is. And then you said that it’s small, but like, how many shows are there? How many are successful? And how can you help one that is in the gray area?
Sam Maher
Great, excellent question. I think the thing to know is that Broadway is a world of extremes. And yes, there are the blockbusters, and they’re super hard to get into. And for every one of those, there’s five other shows that are really good that people could get into and would love. There’s also five other shows that are just sort of boring, you know, not necessarily, you know, they’re not a big hit for a reason. So it’s that sweet spot in the middle, where I’m really interested in is the shows that do need to get put put in front of people like you, Jason Falls, who comes into the city sometimes to see a Broadway show, say, Oh, that one I can’t get in to Hamilton, I can’t get into Dear Evan Hanson, especially last minute, so what what next, what, what is the situation? Or what is the show that I need to look into? You know, one of the things on Yes, probably the website, which is definitely not the focus anymore. Of course, now it’s it’s all social media, but on the website was divided into sections shows that I’ve seen and recommend, or shows that I think are going to be a big huge deal. And you should get tickets now too. And I always like to phrase that so that you’re not in another Hamilton situation, so that you’re not waiting a year to see the show and spending, you know, $800 a ticket, what are the shows that you need to get a ticket now before it explodes onto the scene. So there’s a lot of those, the the thing that will probably blow your mind, it’s something I know for years now and talk about all the time and it still blows my mind, which is 80% of Broadway shows don’t even break even much less make a profit. It’s NASA, the number of shows that that don’t survive, you know, even the first few months and Broadway shows take, you know, on average, at least a year, usually a little more to even recoup and start making a profit. And that’s if they’re selling out at 100% at full price. You know, basically if they are a mega hit, and this other 80% of shows just ends up biting us. You know a good way to think about this. Is the vast majority of Broadway investors are basically philanthropists because they get it they they’re our patrons, they know that they’ll never see their money again, you know, brought Broadway producing contracts are hilarious because I’ve seen other industry investment contracts before. And you know, of course, there’s always clauses, you may lose your money, you know, be prepared, etc. In a Broadway producing contract, it’s in all caps in plain English, not even in legalese, you will lose all of your money, please be prepared for that you will never see it again. There is an 80% chance that you will, um, there there are 41 Broadway theaters. I think 41 it might be 40. But I think it recently went up to 41. And the interesting answer to your question, too, is not only is it you know, whatever 40 shows might be happening on Broadway right now. And that division of the nega heads and the ones that are kind of failing on purpose, because they’re failing, because they’re actually not that good, and that sweet spot in the middle. But a lot of people don’t realize that the difference of Off Broadway and Broadway is the gap in terms of like production quality is not that big. And that means that the gap in terms of like how much an audience would appreciate it is not that big. Meaning when you open up the hundreds of Broadway shows that could be happening on any given night on with the 35-40 Broadway shows, all of a sudden, there, there’s you know, 150 potential possibilities. And that’s what’s really overwhelming, you know, when you start working in the off Broadway shows into the mold, there, there definitely needs to be a world of like, what to see what to be guided towards what to avoid, because, of course, a lot of the, you know, avant garde downtown artsy fartsy stuff bubbles, its way up to off Broadway, rarely to Broadway, which is maybe good for the people who aren’t that in a theater because they’re certainly not going to enjoy that stuff most of the time. Of course, there’s exceptions. But the the business of Broadway is brutal, and when you include Off Broadway and it’s kind of the same, the thing with Off Broadway is a solid half, I believe, are a huge chunk, whatever the number is our nonprofit like theater companies that make pretty much their entire revenue through seasons subscribers. And so they’re less susceptible to this like brutal Broadway, you know, stat of 80% fail, or 80% don’t don’t even break even or make a profit. And so, the answer to your question is there’s so many incredible things to see in New York City, it’s the world Capitol theater on any given night. The problem is most people even someone like you, who is very culturally aware it sounds very interested in Broadway would definitely you know, include a Broadway show and then trip to New York doesn’t know what to see because the mega hits dominate the the marketing space only because the main way Broadway still works is word of mouth. So of course, the mega hits are the ones that you hear about and and sort of take over. So it’s a world of extremes. And my goal is to sort of help make it a little bit less extreme and get get some more young people into those shows that are in that middle category of like definitely worth seeing. Even though they’re not they haven’t taken off Hamilton style or Dear Evan Hanson style or Rent style, but could and should if if we get enough people interested in them and hyped about it.
Jason Falls
So let’s talk a little bit about that that middle space that you’re trying to serve most show comes to you and says we need help with influencer marketing or you know, we want to use whatever formula it is you’re doing over there that’s working for those other shows. What’s your process? How do you connect them with influencers? How do you find the right influencers? To connect them with and and what types of it I mean, is it just as simple as giving them tickets to a show and hoping they’ll post about it? Or is there more content and campaigns that are typical for what you work with?
Sam Maher
You know, it’s surprisingly simple. Um, you know, as I’ve really gotten into this, and had to go through this crash course over the past couple years, of course, I’ve done a lot of research you know, I follow a lot of accounts like yours and really wrap my head around what’s happening with influencer marketing and marketing in the world overall. And because Broadway is embarrassingly behind in every rock Broadway is 20 years behind in everything, including and especially marketing and advertising. And because of that, it actually makes it surprisingly easy. Of course, in the past 5, 6, 7 years probably shows it figured out that they need to be on social media, which is at least a big first step but you know, even hearing me say that sentence should let you know where we’re at that it’s like even that from lambs is not necessarily clear to the lead producers or the advertising and marketing firms that they run a Broadway show. Like they don’t get that like it’s 2020 that’s literally the only way people hear about anything anymore. So even that’s sometimes a struggle. So when it comes to like adding on this like pretty advanced for Broadway concept of influencer marketing the the The process is pretty simple, because the shows that are spending money on boosted posts for Instagram and Facebook and Twitter, and the amount of money that they’ll pump into a post to be sure that the algorithm puts it in front of, you know, 10,000 people, 20,000 people 30,000 people, all very niche because of course instinctually it makes sense that they would want to say anyone who’s seen a Broadway show or follows a Broadway account or whatever, put them in front of those people. But the the probably fandom and the Broadway regular theater going crowd is small enough to where you don’t have to market to them, they already know that they already know what’s coming. And they are even though that middle ground that I’m talking about. So the challenges than reaching out to all the other people in the world that exists. I live in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, which you know, as you can imagine from hearing in the world, and the news is like, you know, kind of a hipster haven. And there’s so many 20 to 30 year olds and 20 to 40 year olds, I would say, in Brooklyn, who would definitely go see Broadway more if they knew what to see. And they’re not getting marketed to they’re not getting advertised to because the the advertising agencies are scared to market them because they’re not typical theatergoing customers ticket buying customers. So it’s pretty easy to sell the idea to a Broadway show or not probably theater company that all we got to do is get influencers from all sorts of other industries, to post about your shop. And usually, the easiest way to do that is to give them two tickets and hope that they do the thing where you’ve probably seen a billion times where someone posts the playbill, with the sign up before the curtain goes up, or their ticket or they’re not front with the marquee. And what happens is, it’s very easy to show a an advertising or marketing director and all probably Theatre Company, for example, that the 10-20 $30,000 that they’re putting in the boosted posts on Instagram, and Twitter and Facebook. If you give even a fraction of that to me, and let me get 40 influencers, let’s say with around 100,000 followers, each posting about the show, not only was it way cheaper, but it’s also a much more compelling ad in finger quotes, because it’s not an it’s not, you know, key art with the logo and a pull quote from the New York Times review that says buy tickets now. And bla bla bla, it’s an influencer inducing FOMO. And saying, you know, this is a cool thing, and you should hear about it. And Isn’t it awesome? It’s all of a sudden, it’s so much more valuable to them. The real problem, the real challenge and obstacle there is, how many of these influencers followers are in New York City, or we’ll be in New York City in the next year or so the Broadway show, for example, is still going to be open. And so geo centricity is actually one of the only obstacles that I really come across. Otherwise, most of the time, a Broadway show, or an opera Theatre Company, or even a theater adjacent brand, doesn’t have to, they and I don’t really have to work together too much on the idea of who it is that we’re trying to get in terms of types of influencers, because the goal here is to open up the floodgates. And so it usually doesn’t mean that we have to focus too much on specific people. And then all of a sudden, you know, a diverse portfolio becomes the key, and you get some streetwear people, some fashion people, some travel people, some food people, some cultures, syndrich people, some TV, some actual celebrities versus you know, influencers or content creators, and TV stars, for example. And then all of a sudden, it’s just out there in the world a lot more. And in a much more compelling way. Of course, there are times when a show or not probably theater company wants something a little more niche or specific. And it’s pretty easy for me to take, you know, a huge my huge database, which is now I think two or 3000 influencers and hone in on some specific people.
Sam Maher
A good example is a theatre company recently did a benefit where they knew they were going to be having some performers seen some Disney songs. And so they were like, let’s get Disney influencers, which you know, I’m sure you’re aware is actually a pretty big, you know, the influencer of influencers. And so it was pretty easy to say, let’s prioritize them. Let’s invite them first, let’s be sure that all of them get an invite. And then even from there, you know, the rest can be pretty much open the floodgates. It depends also on the show, you know, if the show definitely 100% is cool, young, hip energetic, very appealing, very mass appeal and definitely going to be incredibly enjoyable, unpleasant for a non traditional theater goer, then the floodgates can be open a little more than you know, a show that’s a little more specific or a little bit more theory or a little bit more classical in nature, or if it’s focusing on a specific topic. You know, a lot of times that comes down to the difference between plays and musicals as well. Because it’s one thing to send a non theater person to a big, bright $7 million musical. They’re going to enjoy it kind of no matter why it’s just a spectacular, there’s even if it’s Sort of a boring old classical show, they’re like, well, there was at least this incredible date night out and something I don’t normally see. And that usually works versus a play, you know, plays are not something that most people are into. Or people think it’s the opposite. A lot of people think people aren’t that into musicals, because it’s weird that people are seen in them. Wrong, but I find that that’s actually much easier for a non theater goer to digest just because it’s like, you know, fun and Bobby and you can groove. And it’s a big, bright, huge, you know, $7 million spectacular, versus a play, which sometimes can get, you know, kind of artsy fartsy, even on Broadway, and people are gonna say, well, this isn’t doing anything for me that a movie at home or a movie in the movie theater doesn’t do very well, musical, you know, your Nathan Lane story is a perfect example, you can get in a movie theater on your TV. Very true. And that’s often usually in place. So, you know, it’s usually opening the floodgates, to be honest, which makes my job pretty easy, if I’m honest.
Jason Falls
Well, and I would, I would think that you you kind of need to open the floodgates. Now, let’s talk a little bit about 2020. It’s been a real tipping point, I think for a lot of arts organizations across the country, or even the world. You know, when money gets tight, the public tends to cut back discretionary spending, and the economy has been affected by this. But then also, you’ve got the added layer of, you know, quarantining and you don’t want to, you know, you don’t want to be in a crowded theater, right, next shoulder to shoulder to a bunch of people. So give us a little idea of what the reality the landscape is out there right now. And, you know, maybe New York and if you know more anything about the London theatre scene to how our shows doing, are they open at all, are people going back to the theater, when when to the floodgates need to open?
Sam Maher
Oh, it’s a long time away. Um, and and shows are definitely not open, there’s been a couple of, you know, case studies, I think, at the Berkshire theatre group in the Berkshires of Massachusetts, they did this socially, distance production of Godspell. That was, I think, the first production approved by the the actors union. And it went well, but like, there, there’s that that stat of 80% of Broadway shows don’t make money or even breakeven is based on the fact that a lot of them aren’t selling out at 100% at full price. And so even if we come back in some sort of capacity, where it’s 20 30% of the theory can be full, no Broadway show can even survive when it’s 90%, full much, but it’s 20 or 30%. Full. So we’re in real trouble, you know, that the industry that the live entertainment industry is in major, major, major, major trouble. What’s cool is that so many theatre companies and theatre producers had to face that reality so harshly in March and April, that they got very creative and very innovative in so many incredible things are happening to, to make up for this, you know, a lot of them are, of course, centered around the idea of what can we do in terms of streaming, and, you know, recorded productions or zoom productions. And right now, of course, it’s incredibly rocky ground and very shaky territory. But there’s so much happening, that there’s a lot of optimism to be found in just the sheer amount of innovation and attempts that are happening. You know, I get all the press releases, because Jeff probably still exists as a media company, so that they press reps of theater and theater, adjacent brands, you know, include me and I get one a day about a new theater streaming service. And, you know, that is a double edged sword, because in one way, I’m like, Oh, my God, another one, what is happening here, and another way, it’s like, oh, my God, Grant, like, so many incredible things are happening, you can tell that these organizations and entrepreneurs are getting the investments, which means surely good things are gonna happen. And I think you know, Lin Manuel Miranda being kind of the smartest man in the entire world, much less the Broadway industry, being sure that he really pushed for a speedy premiere of Hamilton on Disney plus, in June, it wasn’t supposed to come out, I think, until next next summer. And when March and April, hey, he was like, oh, let’s get this thing out. And you know, by July 4, they had it out, which I think you know, set the tone for how we’re all going to do this the same way that Hamilton set the tone for our I’m going to do this on the stage five or six years ago. Um, so things are dire. And you know, of course for influencer marketing, I got very scared. March in April, I was like, well, there goes my entire industry. And even if we come back in any sort of capacity soon, these shows are gonna have money and marketing budgets and advertising budgets. And where does that put me and I learned very quickly that the key really was these off Broadway gear companies, because they’re nonprofits because they’re funded and often subsidized by, you know, grants and government support and the season’s subscribers and you know, they’re they’re much more art patrons are much more involved with them than they are, you know, buying a Broadway ticket to you know, Broadway is a much more commercial endeavor. And a lot of these are probably theatre companies that I was working with, and had relationships with. The work actually continued because they were doing a lot of either zoom productions or benefits. online, you know, pre recorded or live or whatever it would be. And they needed influencer marketing the same way that they needed them for their physical productions. And they knew that which was awesome because all of a sudden, I was like, Oh, I can rest a little easy now knowing that the theatre companies still need me and still have a budget to do this kind of stuff.
Sam Maher
So we work really closely with a bunch of opera theatre companies, one of the biggest ones is MCC, which is probably a theatre company that is really, really awesome. They put up really great work. And we’ve continued to work with them pretty much in the same capacity that we would have during physical productions in normal seasons pre quarantine, ever since quarantine, it helps that they’re doing really incredible stuff. They had a zoom reading of the play with Marisa Toma and Oscar Isaac. So, of course, that was super easy to sell to influencers. But I had a lot of questions at first, because with zoom plays and online benefits, most the time, it’s free, or very, very cheap, you know, right. One of their readings, I think the Marisa Tomei, Oscar Isaac, when it was $25 tickets, and all of a sudden, the idea of what you’re compensating influencers with when you normally invite them to a Broadway show and give them you know, $250 orchestra seats, and they kind of get that that’s their, their payment, and they usually are posting, usually, you know, it’s an understanding, I think, subconsciously sort of understanding that that’s what they’re posting in exchange for. And all of a sudden, that goes away with zoom readings and free benefits and, and YouTube events that literally the whole world can watch for free. So I was so nervous how this was going to go down. And the same thing happened for an American pickle, the HBO max movie, they hired me to get influencers and I was like, Well, how do we get influencers watching and posting about it when the whole world can watch it for free, you know, free, assuming you buy an HBO max subscription, right? A couple days later. And it turned out that I was worried about all of this for nothing, because influencers especially early on in the quarantine, but even still in in six, seven months in, we’re so thirsty for things to do, and things to post about, because one of the keys to even when Broadway when I was sending influencers to shows that to physical shows was that it was really unique content for them. And I think that’s one of the keys as to why they were so willing to come and post about it because you know, street wear influencer, it was very cool for him to be like I’m a Broadway show. Unique, it’s so different than what they were normally posting about. And we probably went away and that went away from this whole database of influencers of this Arsenal and influencers that I invite to shows that it was the same thing for them. They’re like, yeah, this is great. Like, I don’t care if I’m watching at home, on my computer, on YouTube, and for free, and everyone else can. This is cool, because I think they felt like they then could show that they’re doing cultural things, and participating in in in the world of arts and theater, even in the pandemic. And most importantly, I got so many responses that it was so clear to me that a lot of them knew that it was so important that we champion the arts right now. And even the ones who you know, aren’t arts people, they’re, you know, streetwear food, travel influencers. Got it and they were like, you know what, it’s important, this Opera Theatre Company probably has no money, no revenue, no plans are probably freaking the, you know, out, let me help them by putting their their benefit concert on youtube for free, that I’m watching for free and everyone else can watch for free. There’s no incentive for me to do this other than it’s good for me to champion this and help keep the the arts alive. It helps a lot that a lot of these are probably theater companies and a lot of my other clients that I maintain throughout quarantine also had a philanthropic element to it because that, you know, sort of tugs at the heartstrings of influencers a lot. And they’re much more inclined to post about something when there is a philanthropic element, you know, 10% of proceeds being donated to a really great organization, which was especially true for these producers and arts organizations. Because the the social justice movement that they read, they became so huge this summer, was even bigger in the Broadway and theater and arts world, then almost every other industry. In fact, I actually think Broadway and theater have a much bigger hurdle to, to overcome to come back. a much bigger hurdle to overcome is actually the social justice movement and the rampant racism within the industry, even more so than the health pandemic. You know, a lot of people like to phrase this there’s two pandemics happening at once the virus and then then the pandemic of racism, and Brava is going to figure out what it’s going to have to figure out in terms of the social distancing and capacity and how to get you know, hundreds and thousands of people back in the space to watch live entertainment. That’s just going to be logistical, practical, you know, there’s a billion variables there, but even more so They’re gonna have to face the reckoning that the Broadway was was and it’s going to be hard to make it not super racist and super, not for the little guy and the that reckoning is actually going to be more important. And so it’s interesting to me that a lot of these are probably theater companies and Broadway producers got that saw that have been actively participating and doing their work doing what they have to do to sort of face that reckoning, and make the changes that they they know that they’re going to have to make. And because of that, there’s often been a philanthropic element as part of what they’ve been doing over the past few months, which means that it’s even easier to get influencers excited and posting about it. Because, you know, influencers, of course, in the summer of 2020, know that they’re not going to get away with posting too much that isn’t centric around the social justice movement without getting trolled and slammed and, and taken out. So that’s been helpful, too. So long story long. Basically, there are so many things happening right now.
Sam Maher
And you know, Broadway was already in a precarious position with this 80% of Broadway shows don’t even break even or make a profit thing before the pandemic. So you can imagine with that with a pandemic, and lockdown and shutdowns, but then also the social justice movement probably isn’t a real test out right now. But I actually feel optimistic because there were so many things that needed to change about the industry that I think maybe can be taken care of now, or at least start to be addressed. Versus before it was sort of just like riding the wave and continuing down the same path, no matter why, even though I thought it was a path towards, you know, kind of nowhere. But now I feel like we’ve all had this chance to sit back for a moment and see what’s happening and fix the problems that exist. that exists in the industry overall. So influencer marketing has actually stayed kind of strong. You know, of course, I’m curious to see how it pans out over the next few months when budgets run out. And there’s zero revenue coming in from ticket sales and physical productions. And what that means in terms of like, Are my clients just now all of a sudden all of these streaming services who need to get a lot more eyes watching their their streamed zoom, musicals and plays and benefits? Or is it really the Nomad to do like, you know, HBO max thing and really try to get more clients that are traditional movies and TV, and recorded media, that doesn’t matter if it’s during a pandemic, they still need influence marketing just as much as they did before. Or what the new world or whether it’s in the new world, I think Only time will tell but for now, things have stayed pretty much the same, believe it or not, overall, it’s been pleasantly stable.
Jason Falls
I like the fact that you mentioned that the you know, Off Broadway productions, the the theaters that have subscription services and things like that, you know, that that are, you know, funded by grants and lots of other things are still active and still have the need, because what that tells me is that your experiences in working through influencer marketing in the Broadway theater world are things that can, you know, sort of transfer over to, you know, marketing the Straz Center in Tampa, Florida or Cirque Louie, which is a Cirque du Soleil, a community theater in Louisville, Kentucky, or perhaps even a community theater. So what are some of those quick, you know, bullet point tips that you would give a marketing person at those organizations to make influence marketing work for their arts organizations?
Sam Maher
It’s a great question. I think the answer before the pandemic was always going to be, you know, niche niche niche, geo centric, you know, a person and a micro influencer, who has 3000 followers, but has a pretty big following in San Diego, let’s say, is just as valuable to a theatre company in San Diego, in terms of influencer marketing, as someone with a million followers with followers all over the world, because how many of those million followers are going to be in or near San Diego anytime soon, just to see that chat. So I think you know, always the key is going to be micro influencers, that, that have audiences that are fairly geocentric is always going to be the key, but it is the same model overall, I think of you know, they these theater companies in smaller cities also have the same problem. They’re so used to selling to their ticket buying audience and the theater going crowd, that the same problem exists is in New York where and on Broadway, where they need to reach out to other audiences. And of course, you know, a lot of that has to do with their artistic programming, too. They need to be sure that they’re putting up work that you know, the streetwear influencer, who lives in Louisville, Kentucky is gonna want to go see that job versus doing you know, another revival of my fair lady or the Kenai or whatever it may be. So it obviously starts with with the artistic programming, but then even if you’ve got that, you know, I think that they have to be bred they have to realize that you know, reaching out to other audiences and other types of ticket buyers is is really the Key, an influencer marketing is obviously an incredible way to do that, because it’s, it’s the same example I was giving with, they’re probably spending a lot of money on boosted posts on Instagram, and Twitter and Facebook. And if they read reallocate some of those funds to someone to get influencers in teeth and posting about the show, they’re gonna get way more bang for their buck. But there’s also the post pandemic answer to that, which is, you know, not but it’s actually and, which is, if a lot of these tech companies are now going to be forced to put up work online, and if it’s Zoom, or YouTube, or shrink, or whatever it may be, all of a sudden, their demographic of potential ticket buyers is the world version, the local area of anyone who’s in or near Louisville, Kentucky, or San Diego, or wherever their company may be. And in fact, you know, I had to call the San Diego example comes up because I had a potential client reach out to me from a San Diego Theatre Company last week. And my first reaction was, I have some influencers who kind of are in San Diego, maybe I can get them going, and I can sell them on this package. And then getting into the conversation with them and realizing that, you know, they’re pretty much online only streaming only zoom only for the next probably at least six months, if not year or more. I was like what I can’t help you. Because I can get an influencer, who lives in New York with a million followers who might have, who doesn’t matter where those million followers live, if we can get them excited about San Diego theatre, company x, whatever it is, their their shows and their, their stuff that they’re selling tickets to, then all of a sudden, the world is our oyster, literally in terms of potential ticket buyers. So there’s some really good benefits to you know that of course, there’s the one big con, the pros are numerous, but the one big con is live theater is is live theater for a reason. And it’s so magical to all of us for a reason. And the reasons we love it are the things that kind of go away when it’s streaming and on zoom. And we know that that’s sucks for someone like me who’s just like a theater superfan who loves nothing more than sitting in a room with hundreds or thousands of people and watching live performers perform in front of you.
Sam Maher
One of my favorite quotes of theater ever. I think it’s Patrick Stewart, I think it was a long time ago in the 90s. He said something about the reason live theater is so incredible is because the actors are in the same room with you, they experienced the same weather walking to the theater as you did. They’re literally breathing the same air as you like molecules in their lungs are coming out and going your lungs is an incredible experience except for when you realize out during a pandemic. That’s exactly what we can be doing with their lungs coming indoors. But the truth is, even in the past six, seven months, I’ve seen such incredible steps forward in terms of theatre companies producing streaming content, that it’s giving me hope, because I will say that in April and May, and even really June, what theatre companies were were putting up. I didn’t even want to watch myself as a theater goer, as someone who you know, maybe missed a really great play on Broadway was finally gonna get to see it now that it was on zoom because they were doing it. Even I was like, I don’t know, it’s just on zoom. And like, you know, it was literally like they would have the the green bar that appears when the personal zoom is speaking, it appears around them. And that’s disorienting and jarring and basically just very unpleasant to watch. And a lot of even the benefits at first that they were putting up like fundraisers were just like a mess and technical difficulties left and right. And it was just like a disaster. And even in the past few months I’ve seen fast improvements and how that is working. And I’ve noticed that I even have started to enjoy it a lot more like watching these stream productions and benefits. And so I’m hoping that as more and more theatre companies figure out the better way to do it as more and more of these streaming services arrive and provide the tools necessary for these theatre companies to do it. Then we’re going to be in the best possible spot we can be in with with it not being in person, but at least giving the the semblance of, of lightness and whatever it is that makes up the magic of theater that that makes it very different from why when you just turn this into a TV show or a movie
Jason Falls
Sam thank you so much for the ideas today where can people find you on the internet?
Sam Maher
Yes, Broadway and everything I used to only be yes be way on Twitter, but I finally got the full word out @YesBroadway. Now I can tell you across the board Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube Tiktok everything just @YesBroadway.
Jason Falls
Awesome. Sam thanks for the time today.
Sam Maher
No problem. Thanks so much for chatting Talk to you soon.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Transcribed by otter.ai
The Winfluence theme music is “One More Look” featuring Jacquire King and Stephan Sharp by The K Club found on Facebook Sound Collection.