It’s been more than two years now since the NCAA passed legislation that allowed college athletes at its institutions to accept payment for use of their name, image and likeness. The NIL push as most people know it has created millions of dollars for student-athletes who had long been handcuffed by eligibility rules that prevented them from profiting from their status as influential or celebrities within their sport, or geographic relevance.
We’ve seen some interesting, if not amusing, uses of NIL deals between brands and athletes. One law firm in Kentucky has billboards all over the state for personal injury service with several University of Kentucky athletes on it, claiming “Bigger is Better,” talking about the size of their firm … law firm, that is.
The kid of the Popeye’s chicken meme now plays college football and just signed a long overdue NIL deal with the chain restaurant to actually profit from its use of his likeness, too.
As the usage of NIL has grown, there are some interested people out there studying it to see how well they work, what athletes are profiting, if it’s actually leveling the playing field for some sports and such. One of those such people is Tiffany Kelly from Curastory.
Her interest in student-athletes migrated from her work as a student at Nova Southeastern, then a tutor and athletic department intern at LSU. She then worked on staff as an analyst for ESPN. She’s a statistics and analytics person … not in the points per game sense, necessarily, but analyzing the data around things. Some of her work at ESPN included analyzing fan passion, for example.
Under her leadership, Curastory, which is a video editing platform, did an analysis of NIL student athletes and projected the average monetization amount per video each had across all sports. The results were quite surprising. Let’s just say football and men’s basketball student-athletes are not the highest earners.
I asked Tiffany to come on the show and walk us through the analysis and discuss what it tells us about student-athletes we should, and maybe shouldn’t, be investing in as brands. We also talked about Curastory and how it can be a useful addition to the content production and distribution for any brand or creator.
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Tiffany Kelly Transcript
[00:00:00] Jason: Do you want Instagrammers or talkers to post about your brand, or do you actually wanna engage creators who influence their audience to buy your product? If you’re in the ladder of those two, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Winfluence, the Influence Marketing Podcast.
Hello again friends, thanks for tuning into Winfluence, the Influence Marketing Podcast. I’m your host, Jason Falls. Before we get into the show today, a reminder for those of you listening on the podcast, that Winfluence is now available in amazing technicolour. If you’d like to see the magic as well as here, it just pop over to, the YouTube channel and subscribe.
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Now on to today’s topic. It’s been more than two years now since the NCA passed legislation that allowed college athletes at its institutions to accept payment for use of their name, image, and likeness. The NIL push, as most people know it, has created millions of dollars for student athletes who had long been handcuffed by eligibility rules that prevented them from profiting from their status as influential or celebrities within their sport or geographic relevance.
We’ve seen some interesting, if not amusing cases of NIL deals between brands and athletes. One law firm here in Kentucky has billboards all over the state for a personal injury service with several University of Kentucky athletes on it, claiming bigger is better.
Talking about the size of their firm, law firm that is .The kid of the, Popeye’s chicken meme now plays college football. He just signed a long overdue NIL deal with the chain restaurant to actually profit from its use or benefit from his likeness too. As the usage of NIL has grown, there are some interested people out there studying it to see how well they work, what athletes are profiting, if it’s actually, leveling the playing field for some sports and such.
One of those such people is Tiffany Kelly from Curastory. Her interest in student athletes migrated from her work as a student at Nova Southeastern, then a tutor and athletic department intern at LSU. Then she worked on staff as an analyst for ESPN.
She’s a statistics and analytics person, but comes from a sports family. and she’s a statistics and an analytics person, not in the points per game sense, but analyzing the data around things. Some of her work at ESPN included analyzing fan passion, for example, under her leadership Curastory, which is a video editing platform.
Did an analysis of NIL student athletes and projected the average monetization amount per video, each had across all sports. The results were quite surprising. Let’s just say football and men’s basketball, student athletes are not, the highest earners. I asked Tiffany to come on the show and walk us through the analysis and discuss what it tells us about student athletes we should and maybe shouldn’t be investing in as brands.
We also talked about Curastory and how it can be a useful addition to the content production and distribution for just about any brand or creator. We’re gonna rank some sports stars and see who’s worth more today on Winfluence.
This episode of Winfluence is presented by cipio.ai, the community commerce marketing platform. It has a family of apps that helps you drive commerce through your own community. One of those apps is focused on helping creators and brands be more efficient with their time and in today’s economy, we know efficiency is important. Whether you’re a brand or content creator, you probably spend a lot of time writing and rewriting captions for social media content, but you also have to make sure that content will perform well by keeping up with the trends across social media, how your previous posts are performing and all that stuff too.
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Go to jasonfalls.co/cgi and start creating all the captions and content you need with the click of a button. It’s free for two weeks, just see if you, no credit card required to sign up. I’m betting you’re gonna love it. Jasonfalls.co/cgi. Seriously, this will change the game if you write a lot of social media captions for your clients or for your own content.
If you have a lot of writing that you need to do, this is gonna help you, at least for the social media posts, jasonfalls.co/cgi. You wanna spend money with student athletes and NIL deals, who’s worth it, who’s not Tiffany Kelly from Curastory will tell us next on Winfluence.
Tiffany, before we get into the big NIL report we’re recording this, on January 20th. Just to give folks a bit of context, a few weeks back, when they’re seeing or hearing this, but you’ve had some big news this week that’s worth touching on. Tell us about Curastory’s new deal with the PAC 12, you’re gonna pay student athletes to comment on their own performances.
That’s an amazing path for these young people to monetize their opportunities.
[00:07:33] Tiffany: Yes, we’re so excited. We announced, Tuesday, a couple days ago on the 17th, that student athletes will be able to have access to all of their in-game highlights from many different angles, every play, every down. be able to clip those together, in our platform. edit, provide their own commentary, and then with one click distribute out to social.
So, TikTok reels, facebook watch if they use that anymore, shorts, YouTube, the Whole Nine. and our normal platform will be selling ad space for them, so they’ll get ad reads, from advertisers. They’ll do the read in their own voice, pop that in, and make money on that content.
I’m so excited back in 2019, when the first NIL press story broke, I’m just like, imagine student athletes, they’re like, I’m not gonna give my commentary here to espn, ABC Fox, you guys can see my TikTok in an hour, and we’ll have all of my post-game commentary and I’m just so thrilled, that the PAC 12 and Tempus X chose our platform to do this historical partnership.
we’re starting with football for endgame highlights. if all football players, all active football players posted one video a week, comes out to about 3 million for all 400, 600 of them, and then, our platform’s still gonna be available for the 6,000 Pac 12 athletes, and if they all posted one video a week in their seasons, that nets out to about 36 million.
So, just crazy and just so humbled and excited to start this with the PAC 12.
[00:09:25] Jason: And also too I was reading into the the news coverage of it. and I think, if I’m not mistaken, the payouts for the student athletes are tied to basically a CPM, which is a different from your typical traditional influencer marketing payment, and B, music to brands, ears.
[00:09:49] Tiffany: Yes, we are fully performance based. Advertisers have budgets. They love attribution and performance, and so, advertisers don’t come and Curastory and pay flat fees, they run campaigns for whatever budget they have, just like a normal ads manager. And, our floor CPM is $30, which is awesome.
it’s a very much well above industry standard for creators, and the rev share that they’re getting from platforms like YouTube. So, yeah, advertisers are really excited and, attribution tracking and performance based, we are excited that they are excited for this partnership.
[00:10:33] Jason: There’s a lot of people excited about this, but I can tell you from my 15 years experience as a PR guy in college athletics, one group of people that’s probably not excited about it are the coaches, cause now they got more crap to wrangle after the game. And man, don’t say this on your TikTok and stop, but I’m sure you’re not real concerned about them.
[00:10:51] Tiffany: It’s also fascinating, former ESPN background, sports girl, Miami Heat, LSU football, The Whole Nine, but I actually recently learned, I don’t know if I was living under a rock, but pro athletes if they comment on penalties, they get fined. And so, in our platform as videos from the PAC 12, Tempus X are being sent over to us after every game, like in real time,
we have to flag which ones are penalties, that way the student athletes don’t clip in and provide commentary that could be a little bit of an issue. This partnership is going to force the NCAA to figure out some more legislation, not from the perspective that we are doing anything illegal because we’re not, it’s fully legal, but I think.
Pro athletes, there’s a collective bargaining agreement where they have to do press conferences, that does not exist. So, will the student athletes, will they be like, hey, I’m not gonna talk to you ESPN, I’m gonna go make money on my TikTok, so go listen to my commentary on TikTok, what will NCAA say about that? I’m very curious to see.
We’re also even more competing with athletic department, social media channels now, because athletic departments were the only ones that had access to this content and now the student athletes have access to this content. And if you follow any, big college football team, YouTube’s channel or in like social media, Instagram channel, you’ll see they like sit down with the athletes to go overplay and they’re given commentary and so that’s gonna be interesting to watch too.
Just the fallback from that because it’s actually I’m gonna do it myself, I’m gonna make money and do it myself. So I’m really excited, but I’m just excited to get them paid. I think, the coaches, the athletic departments are gonna really be watching to see how this kind of shakes up and plays out.
[00:12:58] Jason: Yep, you’re disrupting it, which is good. It was definitely an industry that needed disrupting. I’m glad I’m not a sports information director anymore. I would not like dealing with all that stuff, but I’m glad you’re doing it because certainly the student athletes, deserve fair share, which they have been kept from for a long time.
Now, we are talking a lot about sports, so I’m curious, you mentioned you worked in the LSU athletic department, you did spend some time as a sports analyst at ESPN. And you’ve done this NIL report as far and wide as I searched though I could not answer the question. Were you yourself a student athlete? Why the focus on sports for you?
[00:13:36] Tiffany: Yeah, my family is a big sports family. My dad swam at Morehouse, he was one of the first national black champions. My mom played basketball, my brother played college basketball. I played college. Not football, oh my God,
[00:13:55] Jason: Just wait a minute, this is news.
[00:14:00] Tiffany: I played college volleyball for one year and then I decided to focus on school at a small D2 school down in Fort Lauderdale, but, yeah, sports has just been near and dear to my heart. I remember my first sports experience was an LSU Georgia football game, in Death Valley, electric, I think it was like three or four overtime back in 2000 3, 4, 5. I don’t know all the stats.
Nerds can go look that up, which one it was, but, yeah, I’ve just been in this industry for so long and, worked with Miami Heat for a season, did the Gerra trade deadline with them. then I went to ESPN a few years later after I graduated, and now doing my own thing.
[00:14:47] Jason: Awesome. As I mentioned, not that this is about me, but I spent 15 years as a sports information director, which is the PR guy for college athletics. This was before NIL, this was before a whole lot of social media really started to take effect. When I was back then, the athletic department’s perspective that I worked with wasn’t my policy, but it was their policy of, student athletes shouldn’t be involved on social media.
They shouldn’t be talking about social media. This was in like 2005, 2004. So, a lot has changed and I know that it would not be, fun to be an SID which is what we called ourselves back then these days, but, it’s a new world, it’s fun though. All right, let’s dig into this, NIL report you did at Curastory, which preceded obviously the big deal with the PAC 10.
it ranks individual college athletes based on the projected, amount of money they can make per video on social media. So it’s not necessarily actual dollars in this report that these kids are pulling in, but it’s a projection. So tell us how you came up with the numbers and how you pulled the data to make this happen?
[00:15:51] Tiffany: Oh man, months in the making a team of 10 people internally, we brought some analysts on to get this out, but we analyzed over 75,000 student athletes from, all of the FBS schools. We also did HBCUs as well, Power Five, a few non-Power five as well, looked at all of their social media channels.
We found all of them, got them. Some of them had them on the rosters. Some of them we had to look up ourselves. Backed out the average video views across all of their channels and we put our minimum 30 CPM floor pricing on it, and so that’s how we backed out all of the values for, all of the 75,000 athletes.
And so the report that we ended up coming out with is just the ones that are leaning into video, they’re really good storytellers, they have done some ad placements or sponsorships before, so they have some understanding of working with advertisers and brands. and even if they haven’t, there were some on there that hadn’t had sponsorships before, like a good chunk.
But they’re gold nuggets for advertisers if they haven’t heard of them before. So, that was really the idea of the report is who are the student athletes that are actually leaning into content creation? Because I feel like we hear NIL NIL NIL, but no one’s really giving them the practical application to do NIL.
And that was one of the reasons why we went on a road show last summer, to a lot of schools and top schools, but it was really just to help the market understand, who are the main players and creators in NIL? and it’s not the ones that you think.
[00:17:45] Jason: not actually I know people are anxious to hear the results. We do need to take a break in a second. So let’s tease out maybe one big headline from the results and tell me how you reacted to seeing this. Only two student athletes in the top 10 were football players, and they were number 9 and number 10. The only other male athlete in the top 10 was Sam Hurley at Texas, who is a track and field athlete.
The rest were women and not necessarily in the sport that most would assume is the marquis sport of women’s basketball. That was stunning to me. Why do you think there’s such diversity and counterintuitive people landing in the top 10 of this report?
[00:18:28] Tiffany: That’s such a great question. I think it’s, honestly, they’re just leaning into content more.
They don’t have the ability to be in the press as much, like a football or a women’s basketball would, and so I think softball, gymnastics, these women’s sports that just dominated, also women’s track and field athlete rowers, like just swimming. I think a lot of them were dominating this list because they’re really taking NIL,, to the next level.
And we can’t just lean on the press talking about us, we have to really do our own content and grow our own audience ourselves. and I also think that, informs the press. I think, if they are growing their own audience and them kind of building this just power that they have, the press kind of pays attention and it’s this like feedback loop and so, I truly think that’s why some of these not unknown, but these sports that you wouldn’t expect, were really powering the top.
[00:19:39] Jason: I definitely agree with that. I think, one way that I’ve tried to rationalize it in my brain is that the student athletes in the marques sports, the ones that get the media coverage, they are probably thinking, oh, NIL’S here, so I can get paid to endorse a product.
I can get paid to be on somebody’s billboard. I can get paid to do appearances. Whereas the term that we used to use, back in the day, which is probably passe these days was non-revenue sports or the olympic sports or whatever the other sports, the non. Football, basketball, baseball, essentially. Those sports student athletes probably are thinking of, okay, if I want to build an audience and I want to monetize this NIL opportunity, I have to actually create content, people want to see because I’m not gonna get all these product endorsements.
And so, it’s making the student athletes become content creators first in this avenue to supplement their life as an athlete. Secondarily, Sound fair?
[00:20:40] Tiffany: Exactly. I completely agree with you. And I also think the report is, or student athlete creators that are gonna actually really be good at advertising and if brands view this list, they can hang their hat on it and reach out to these student athletes for sponsorships, et cetera. They’re gonna create good content for you. We’re beyond the days of, I’m just gonna post a picture of Gatorade, me holding it on my social media channel and expect a cheque like you have to do a little bit more.
Audiences are skipping by that type of content and they’re consuming content where it’s actual content. Who wants to read a magazine with all ads? You actually have to give some point of view and story, and then you add an ad replacement inside of that. And so, a lot of these athletes just have the ability to do that in the report, and I totally agree with you on that point.
[00:21:39] Jason: Nice. All right. There’s a lot more where that came from, after the break, we’re talking to Tiffany Kelly from Curastory about her recent NIL student athlete video value report. A lot more digging in plus more about Curastory when we come back. Don’t go away.
Back with Tiffany Kelly from Curastory who is sharing with us her company’s analysis of the top earning social, video student athletes. These are projections, not actual dollars, but when we stepped away, we had just gone through the top 10, which was mostly women, and only two of the three men were from the presumptive marquis sports of football and men’s basketball.
In fact, there were no men’s basketball players in the top 20. Tiffany, I didn’t ask this at first because I wanted to tease out that big insight before we went to the break, but gimme your top two or three learnings that you took from this report. What does your report tell brands, about investing in NIL athlete deals?
[00:22:44] Tiffany: Yeah. I think the most interesting one was, I believe close to 75% of the list had not had advertiser deals before. It was a large amount and only 25% of them have done brand deals. Which tells me a few things, sponsors are really only gauging for the top top athletes, because I think NIL is so new and there’s still a lot of learnings that need to come out.
And I also think, again, what we were talking about before the break, some of these student athlete creators that have never had advertising deals before, they’re actually putting so much effort into content, because they don’t have the ability just to like ride on the media, press coverage.
And it’s really good content, they have amazing audiences. A lot of them do like food content, just like workout content. Just really interesting content, that their audiences are just tuned into, and so this is like the content that you wanna be advertising within, where the engagement is just so high.
And so, that is a really interesting nugget that we noticed when we were analyzing the data, that 75% have never had a brand deal 25% have. And if I was a brand, I would be downloading this list, sending it out, you need to be talking to all of these people, that have never had a brand deal before because it is gonna get a little old.
The top ones, they’re these walking billboards now, and they’re actually losing their audience because they’re doing so many sponsorships and they’re only talking about products and they’re not actually posting any content. and people are just turning and not listening to them. And so, I think a huge shift is actually gonna happen to move away from those top athletes to, the smaller ones.
And the ones that you guys are probably thinking about did not make our list, so I will say that.
[00:24:54] Jason: let me give you a little contextualized example for everyone to underline that point. And it’s a friend of the show, we’ve had, Messai Russell from the University of Kentucky Track and Field program.
I think she’s a senior this year. She’s a, a national record holder and all that kind of stuff. She came on the show about a year ago or so to talk to us. About because she’s a student athlete, but before she really even ran track in college, she had a YouTube channel where she did fashion content, so she was a content creator already.
Combine those two things and let me give you context on, Ms. Russell. She has 188,000 followers on Instagram. She has, 27,000 followers or subscribers on YouTube, she has 474,000 followers on TikTok. So if you add all that up, she’s got more than a half a million people who are paying attention, to her social media content.
The Lexington Herald Leader, which is the daily newspaper in Lexington, Kentucky, that all of the sponsors who you know sponsor UK and want to get in front of UK audiences and whatnot, their circulation might be 180, 200,000, for the daily newspaper. She has four five x that on her social media channels.
So for the student athletes out there that are listening, or for the parents or for the brands, if you’re looking for student athletes and NIL deals that are gonna connect you in a very, relevant emotional way with sports fans of a particular university. Get your mindset outta basketball and football because there’s some great content creators out there like Messai and like the others that are represented in this report. So I’ll back you up on that.
[00:26:39] Tiffany: Yes, I love it, thank you. Go get the report everyone.
[00:26:43] Jason: Yeah, absolutely. We’ll make sure everybody’s got links in the show notes and all that good stuff, and we’ll circle back on that in a minute. Now, Tiffany, if I’m a student athlete seeing this list, what does this give other than maybe competitive motivation to build my video content?
I can see someone being like, ain’t no way, some field hockey gal from Liberty is making more than me and lighting a fire under themselves, but what can student athletes really take away from this?
[00:27:08] Tiffany: Good question. I would say if you’re not on the list, don’t be upset, this will be annual and so I think looking at the student athletes that are on the list, going to their channels, researching, studying, what are they doing that I’m not doing?
A lot of them are actually honestly looking in the camera, talking to their audiences, building that connection. And that’s really just the foundation of storytelling. Bringing people into their lives to a certain degree, of course, and just having fun with it. These are multifaceted humans.
They aren’t just talking about their sport, they’re also talking about other things. There was some in there that love fishing, talking about fishing, and so I think leaning into what you like to do outside of your sport, and if it is your sport, give just behind the scenes some things that people haven’t really seen before.
You being just one of the top people just doing what you do. And so it really is about building a connection with your audience and also posting video content. A few months ago there was a lot of hot takes out there, everyone getting upset that Instagram was pushing to reels and moving to get more like TikTok.
But that’s just what the industry wants and the market wants people like video content. It engages both senses, auditory and visual. And so, lean into creating video, you will see high engagement. And so it’s a great, those are the main couple things.
[00:28:53] Jason: Instagram’s out there cranking out horses and TikTok made a car. It’s a different world, you gotta make that adaptation. All right. So that brings us to, Curastory. I know a little bit about the platform, but if a student athlete wants to light a fire under their video content, you can help. Tell us about the platform and what it does?
[00:29:14] Tiffany: Yes, we are a video enablement tool first. So, we have editing tools, we have music licensing tools. We have one click distribution so you can get a video out to all of your social media channels at one time. And of course, our biggest value prop is we have monetization, so as soon as you’re uploading a video, we send you scripts, from brand campaigns.
Fully programmatic, you do not have to talk to brands, you do not have to pitch brands, which takes up a lot of time if you are really building a immediate business around your video content, and so we really take care of all of that. And we’re constantly launching new video enablement tools based on.
Our student athlete creators, our pro-athlete creators, our non-athlete creators, just what they need, and one of them that is coming out later this year is insights. So as you’re uploading videos, we will literally tell you this is gonna perform slightly better on TikTok, this is gonna perform better on shorts.
So we’re actually demystifying the algorithms for you because I feel like nothing is more frustrating than spending 3, 4, 5 hours of your time in a day, posting on social and it flopping. And so, that was just from user feedback. And so we’re constantly launching these new functions and video enablement tools in our platform.
So, if you are worrying about if you’re gonna grow on social, how to actually grow your audience, how to edit and clip your video. come to Curastory, we have all of those kind of resources, support articles for you. We also have a success team that was there to assist in any, ways that you need. And so, yeah, build media businesses, creators are the media publishers of today.
[00:31:04] Jason: And you did mention this, but I want to underline it. This isn’t just for student athletes, it’s also for any type of content creator?
[00:31:12] Tiffany: So we’re hyper-focused on sports and fitness creators right now.
So we do have student athletes, pro-athletes, we also have non-athletes. So your fitness enthusiasts, your yogis, your skiers, your snowboarders, food, like those types of creators. But we will, end of the year be launching out to moms, musicians, comedians, like all the whole nine. So if you find yourself in that health and wellness fitness bucket, creating that type of content, you can use Curastory today.
[00:31:41] Jason: Damn, I’m so close. Tiffany, thank you so much for sharing this with us today. The insights around, student athletes are very helpful. I’m excited to see more of the platform too. Really appreciate you being here, tell folks where they can find, the report, where they can find Curastory and where they can find you on the inner webs?
[00:32:04] Tiffany: Yeah, of course. So we are at curestory.co. We will also link the NIL report in the show notes. It is a kind of a long url, but if you Google NIL report, we will come up our Curastory NIL report. It will be the first thing that pops up, and so yeah, that is where you can find all the things and sign up form if you’re interested. That’s on curastory.co as well.
[00:32:32] Jason: Awesome. We’ll make sure those links are in the show notes. Thank you again, Tiffany. Great stuff.
[00:32:37] Tiffany: Of course, thank you.
[00:32:48] Jason: This list is nuts gang, and it’s not just the big schools either. You’ve got representatives from Buffalo and Middle Tennessee in the top 15. It seems to me the common thread is more, quality and quantity of content for these creators, which is a great indicator that content rules over popularity in the influence space. It’s good stuff.
Check out the links and connect with Tiffany on LinkedIn. You can always find our show notes at jasonfalls.com. Click on articles in the upper navigation, which we’ll take you to the blog listing of the latest episodes and such, find Tiffany, click through, you’ll find the links on this show.
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