We’ve been talking to some talent managers of late. They play an important role for many creators, managing the business of their influencer status while the creator, well creates. Many of them add another perspective to the creative process, contribute ideas to shape partnerships into something more than they would be otherwise and are valuable to the brands and agencies in the equation as well.
But allow me a moment to be rather frank. Those are exceptions to the rule. Most talent managers are in it for one thing: maximizing the take so they maximize their commission. This is why I recently had an interaction with an Instagram influencer’s talent manager that left me dumb struck.
This particular creator has about 50,000 followers on Instagram. They don’t have other social channels to speak of. They have about a 5 percent engagement rate. That means that only about 2,500 people of their followers are actually engaging with the content. But still, they have good content, good engagement. I reached out to talk about a collaboration.
I did some reference checking with a few tools I have access to and the estimated fee for an Instagram reel for this size and scope of content creator, according to the algorithms and estimators some pretty nice, reliable tools use, was about $600.
Now, I know anyone with a talent manager isn’t likely to do anything for $600 because the talent manager has to get theirs, so I was anticipating a starting price in the $1500-$2000 range. It’s the price you pay for working with someone who has someone else getting a cut.
The talent manager proceeded to tell me this content creator’s fees start at $8,000. There isn’t math possible that makes that a good investment for my client. I’m essentially paying a CPM rate of $3,200 to get in front of the 2,500 people who will actually engage with the content.
Unfortunately, this isn’t uncommon. Now, I’m the first to argue that follower count and even engagement rate shouldn’t be the only thing that dictates the value of a creator engagement. The quality of content, where the brand uses that content, how long they have rights to use it and so on are certainly worth consideration, too.
But if the purpose of an influencer collaboration is to get a message in front of their audience, then there has to be some attention paid to how many of said audience the message will reach and resonate with. For this creator, that’s a lot of people. And certainly not $8,000 worth.
Separate conversations with talent managers recently have also stuck in my crawl as they say back home. Usage rights are a favorite add-on price talent managers love to lay in there, taking a $2,000-$3,000 investment and instantly doubling it. Licensing is another similar, but separate fee that drives me crazy.
Here’s my take on licensing someone’s image: If you’re Shaq or Eminem or even a Kardashian … your celebrity is so large that you are culturally impactful, then yeah, licensing your image is a valid thing. If you have 40,000 followers on Instagram, licensing better refer to standing in line at the DMV.
To put it another way, if you walk into my Target or Walmart and no one knows who you are, you shouldn’t get to license your image.
But, I digress.
As much as we’ve been propping talent managers up lately on the show, I feel like we need to have a different discussion about them and the practice. Just so happens Jessy Grossman also thinks talent manager roles have changed and should be changing.
Jessy is the woman behind Women in Influencer Marketing. She’s got a great community and podcast, both by that name and abbreviated WIIM sometimes.
You may recall she was a previous guest on the show, back in May of 2021. We talked mostly about WIIM back then.
But she reached out recently and said, “Traditional talent management is becoming obsolete and needs to change.” Color me both curious and delighted.
Now, I’m not implying Jessy agrees with my semi-rant about fees and licensing and such. But I did think it was suitable to bring her back to Winfluence to have the conversation.
This episode of Winfluence is presented by CIPIO.ai. We are helping brands transform their digital marketing with user-generated content videos and images at scale. Come see us at CIPIO.ai. If you want me to personally show you the platform and how we can solve your digital marketing performance problems with high-performing UGC, just go to jasonfalls.co/cipio … fill out that form and I’ll personally set up time to chat with you.
Find show notes for this episode at jasonfalls.com/jessygrossman2.
This episode of Winfluence is presented by CIPIO.ai. We are helping brands transform their digital marketing with user-generated content videos and images at scale. Come see us at CIPIO.ai. If you want me to personally show you the platform and how we can solve your digital marketing performance problems with high-performing UGC, just go to jasonfalls.co/cipio … fill out that form and I’ll personally set up time to chat with you.
Links for this Episode
- Jessy Grossman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessygrossman/
- Women in Influencer Marketing: https://iamwiim.com
- Women in Influencer Marketing Podcast: https://members.iamwiim.com/podcast/
- Scale UGC with CIPIO.ai: https://jasonfalls.co/cipio
Jessy Grossman Episode Summary
In this episode of Winfluence, host Jason Falls sits down with Jessy Grossman, the founder of Women in Influencer Marketing, to discuss the outdated nature of influencer and creator talent management. You won’t want to miss the enlightening conversation that ensues!
Here’s a rundown of the top conversation topics covered in this episode. First up, Grossman challenges the notion that follower count and engagement rate should be the sole determining factors in assessing a creator’s value. She argues that the quality of their content, usage rights, and the brand’s reach should also be taken into consideration. Grossman’s fresh perspective highlights the need for a more holistic approach to talent management.
Next, she delves into the concept of reaching and resonating with an audience. While audience size is important, Grossman believes that the size of the audience alone shouldn’t dictate the price tag for a collaboration. She shares a personal experience where she was quoted a staggering $8,000 for a collaboration with a creator whose audience reach was small. This exorbitant price seemed unjustifiable when considering the return on investment.
Another key topic tackled in this episode is the frustration surrounding licensing fees. Grossman discusses the significant additional cost that talent managers often add for usage rights, instantly doubling the investment. She questions the appropriateness of licensing someone’s image, particularly for individuals with a small number of followers on social media. Grossman argues that only celebrities who have a significant cultural impact should have the ability to license their image.
Lastly, Grossman and Falls explore the shifting landscape of influencer marketing as brands prioritize creators who can drive sales. They predict that this trend may lead to a recession within the industry as brands veer towards working with creators who can deliver tangible results. They stress the need for more conversations and strategic thinking to effectively navigate this changing landscape.
Enjoy this episode of Winfluence – The Influence Marketing Podcast!